Do you think Holyfield was juicin when he fought Tyson

Holy was juicing OR he has freaky gene's.

I hate accusing guys without proof. I give Tyson a free pass simply because imo there are a few signs that show he didn't juice, however, Holy moved up in weight like he was a demi-god, just so unusual. Unless he had the freakiest of genetics (which is possible imo, lol) if I had to guess I would say yes respectfully.

respectfully because he was a damn good fighter either way.

 

Obviously I don't know for certain, but if I had to put $ on it I think they both were. Especially Evander.

 

if they both were I would say Holys worked better as he got so much stronger as well as bigger whereas Tyson seemed to stay the same in most ways over the years, muscle size and strength I mean.

 

Maybe, but you can't just look at what his weight was in different fights. He was 212 Lbs. when fought Alex Stewart in 1989 and 1993, he was 217 when he fought Bowe in 1993, he was 215 vs. Tyson in 1996. Sure, he was at his lowest HW World Title fight weight vs. Bowe in 1992 (205, his 2nd lowest HW weight) but he had weighed as much as 212 prior to this fight. In his 2nd fight at HW he weighed 210 (in eighty eight).

 

He was cutting weight to make CW (190 at the time), 202 for his first HW fight, 210 for his 2nd. Spinks jumped up 25 Lbs. to fight Holmes. Jones jumped up about the same to fight Ruiz. Holyfield was already a 200 Lber who had been cutting weight. He was 217 vs. Bowe in '93. He was 2 Lbs. lighter for Tyson... 3 years later.

 

hey I hear you, i am just guessing, i don't even like saying for sure a guy is on something without proof because how do i know for sure?

 

yeah that's where i am coming from :rasta

i am just too damned old to remember the exact dates is all

 

What would surprise most of us is if it could ever be proven that Any champion after 1982 or so didn't juice.

 

i like to think there has been at least a few, then again i have always been a bit of a dreamer

 

It would be a very small number of champions who did not juice. if we could hunt out, a champion who did not juice, which one would it be?

So many prolonged careers, So many guys looking like bodybuilders, So many guys with a history of fluctuating weight more so than was natural before...

Functional giants. Functional artificial mass. It can't all be explained away as a bigger, growing population.

Where are the 260lb cyclists and marathon runners?

 

i dont care about the pics. i talk about the real facts.. between 209 1/2 and 215 pounds there are no real difference to call anyone "skinny"

 

There is so much confusion on PEDs. I have lifted for many years, read a good amount on the subject, questioned many at various gyms...Here is my opinion, from the General to the Specific.


1) There must be a fair number who use PEDs & we do not know. Some even maximize strength nt bulk, there are endless combinations & potentiators, some get stronger but keep bodyfat (Toney).

2) There is no good reason to assume all or even the majority cheat or cheated.

Chpklab I respect your intelligence & boxing knowledge, yet you are assuming facts of widespread guilt without realizing how other factors can acount for the builds you see.

There vare a small percentage who have outliar abilities, including for muscle mass. Usually strongly correlated with bone structure, hormonal & other factors.

Google maximum muscular bodyweight, natural...You will see that es[ecoa;;y with Monster Bones there is mucho overlap between cheaters who are not even that big, & natural hosses!

I have MET a bunch over ttime, & it begs credility that these men were all liars.

When you COMBINE potential with training for bulk & the rule changes (rounds, glove size, clinch-fests tolerated...)
With top power men being attracted to the sport...
Of course you can have huge natural guys.

3) When you get to a certain size, or very rapid muscle gain (assuming not a skinny kid, but already strong), THEN the eyes can be telling.
But usually this is not enough.
No boxers I know were like Ronnie Coleman, under 6' & very LOW bodyfat at 300 lbs.!

4) Holyfield? Fughettibout it, only because the Balco/HGH investigation & revelations it make it highly improbable that he did not use.

But just his mass & speed of growth is within the potential of some.
Also his legs were relatively small, & the fabulous definition...
Only jis neck likely was beyond what a man of his structure could have achieved naturally...
Whether HE could have is another question!

5) Why are so many willing to condemn Tyson?
His many flaws & crimes & questionable ethics do not show he even LIKELY used.

He was near 200 lbs. by his teens. Think a poor boy from Brownsville mugging people had access to PEDs? And he has no unnatural growth rates or patterns.
Nah, he likely never used & is just a Keg.

Primo Carnero was under 6' 6" & weighed 260-270 lbs. absent that much body fat. And grew up poor, WITHOUT all the great nutrition, training es[ecialy with weights...

Understand some much smaller than him will use, & sometiimes someone close to his siz will be natural.

Oh, the weight of Holyfield in HIS case dod mpt reflect his real increaase in muscularity.
Though again it is the actual evidence, not a visual or the scale, that is damning.

A Frank Brino, sculpted at 5' 3" & 247...Well with huge bones a few can reach that size with low bodyfat.
So it is not enough in ITSELF for me to accuse him.

That does not mean I think it likely he is innocent; I do not know.

 

Evan Fields was.

 

Nice post Entaowed.