do you think joe calzaghes boxing style would be good to emulate?

Yes Mitchell really really wanted a rematch, taking over 4 yrs away from the professional ring after the fight truly showed his and his promotors eagerness.

Mitchell is reported to have said if he did have another fight after Calzaghe he would have moved up in weight.

I wanna rematch is a standard statement from a beaten fighter, i read that Mitchell after his 4 yr layoff stated that he would welcome a rematch with Calzaghe, i bet he would have, when Byrons return to the ring amounted to 8 losses (all KO or TKO) against 4 wins

You have your opinion i have mine, you are not likely to change my view and vice versa.

 

I don't think many greats are easy to emulate since they came up with those styles to fight their body types. Many tall guys want to be Hearns, many lefty Hagler or even Winky. Shorter heavyweights want to be Tyson, but who could do that? I would say it is better to go into the ring and you will find a style which fits your body type. The greats like Hagler and Hearns or Tyson came up with the best styles for their bodies..

 

are you saying that because he was on the brink of retirement, that he didnt want the rematch?

nice spin doctoring mate - joe basically picked a guy about to quit boxing for a title defence, had to cheat to prevent getting koed by him, and refused a rematch...and somehow its mitchells fault that joe ran from byron asking for a deserved rematch? no wonder people like groves and froch laugh at joe.

 

its a lot to do with career structure as well as style. Challenging for your first major title at age 34 is something few british boxers would be satisfied with. most of them won a major title well before joe did, even the late starters like stuart hall did it younger than joe.
Most British fighters have emulated joe in that respect, with some notable exceptions at SMW - collins eubank, watson.

 

Its not giving a pass its asking a question that you cant answer. Who was he supposed to go to America to face in 03?
Hopkins refused and at SMW there was Echols who didnt face Calzaghe when it was apparently agreed in a neutral country (Denmark. Tyson undercard) and Brewer and Mitchell and Calzaghe had beaten both of them.
Are you saying Calzaghe as champ should have been travelling to face those fighters now?
So tell me who at SMW was Calzaghe supposed to be travelling for?
Also Gonzalez was not an option and that title was not fought in America in all of Calzaghes champion years with Michalczewski, Erdei being the main title holders so wrong again.

This is where I say you try and bend the truth. This is not me defending the person but stating facts only and yes I do defend facts

 

I remember running some numbers a while back on ATG boxers. Most of the very best had titles by the age of 22. A few got a title at 24, but none later than 26. You need to have a long career at the top to really carve out a record and get a lot of big name wins.

 

yeh calling joe a ATG is a bit of a joke seeing as he lagged behind guys like stuart hall, nevermind froch and co.

back door hall of famer though for sure, courtesy of the wbo, without which he'd have only hung onto a title for 1 or 2 defences like he actually did in real life outside the wbo.

 

he kept his pimp hand strong

 

If you have the talent.....................

 

You always give him a pass. Always.

You've been doing it for years.

How many times can we keep debating this subject?

We've been doing it for 6 years now.

We're both going to end up in the fun house. Ha!

I'll give Joe a pass for being avoided by Ottke, and for Bernard not wanting the fight earlier. But in general, Joe wasn't avoided like you love to claim. He wasn't desperately wanting the biggest fights, yet was unable to get them. He was happy defending his WBO belt in Britain. I know he was, you know he was, everyone knows he was.

You cannot have it both ways. A man who is more than happy to defend a lightly regarded title for 10 years, has no credibility in trying to claim that he always wanted the biggest fights, but who was cruelly denied them.

He said he wanted Roy after beating Sheika in 2000, yet made zero attempt to fight in the U.S. or at Roy's weight class.

He again mentioned wanting Roy and Bernard after beating McIntyre in 2001, yet made zero attempt to raise his profile in the U.S.

Again, I'll give him a pass for Bernard. But any guy who's killing themselves to make weight to be fighting guys like: Mktrtchyan, Ashira and Veit etc, is simply not telling the truth when they're claiming they're desperate to fight named opposition and the best that's out there.

Along with HBO, Showtime are a huge network. They believed in Joe and they wanted him to fight in the U.S. to garner more attention. At any point in the early 00's, there was nothing stopping Joe from fighting live in the U.S. and moving up to LHW to TRY and fight more recognisable names. He had the backing, he had the talent, and he could have made waves and moved up the rankings. But he didn't, because he didn't want to do that. And that's fine by me. The only issue I've ever had, is that he didn't do that, but still tried to portray himself as a victim to the media. And that is why I don't respect him, but I've always respected a guy like Eubank, who did what Joe did, but who was brutally honest in doing so.

I can accept that he had injuries and personal issues, but I'll never accept that he was a victim who desperately wanted the best, but who was unable to get them. That theory has been debunked numerous times by his own actions.

I can show you links where he contemplated challenging Dariusz, saying that if his circumstances hadn't changed within 6 months, he'd pursue the fight. Yet his circumstances didn't end up changing, yet he still didn't pursue it.

I can also post you links where in 2004, he said that he knew he had to move up to LHW, because he'd done all he could at SMW, and there was nothing else on the horizon.

General Zod has also shown us both links where the WBO gave him the opportunity to move up to LHW, saying that they'd put him in the no.1 mandatory position to face their LHW champion. So that could have been Dariusz, Gonzalez or Erdei. A gateway to a new division, which was surely a better option than fighting guys like Kabary Salem.

I can also show you links where he dismissed guys like Tarver, claiming that he hadn't impressed him etc. And as far as I'm aware, he would only fight Johnson at SMW.

He had numerous opportunities and the backing to try and obtain bigger fights for himself, despite the fight with Bernard falling through, but again chose not to. Again, that was his prerogative. But just stop with the BS claims that he was avoided. Again, you're talking about a guy who starved himself in his early 30's, to fight B-C class level guys.

If you're thinking of typing the usual: "You're just waffling" then save yourself some time and don't even bother replying.

Only reply to me if you want to objectively debate the points raised.

You love to portray me as being biased etc, but when it comes to Sir Joseph, there's nobody out there as biased as you.

 

All the comments about Calzaghe's style being reducible to "slapping" and "stamina" just expose who DKSAB.

The key to Calzaghe's success was his elite footwork, and just as with most other ATG's with supreme footwork his would be incredibly difficult to emulate closely & effectively for anyone but a major talent.

 

You see how you dont have an argument?
I asked

"Its not giving a pass its asking a question that you cant answer. Who was he supposed to go to America to face in 03?
Hopkins refused and at SMW there was Echols who didnt face Calzaghe when it was apparently agreed in a neutral country (Denmark. Tyson undercard) and Brewer and Mitchell and Calzaghe had beaten both of them."

You couldnt answer and just wrote about giving him a pass. Very lame even for you

Even if he was, who are the American SMWs in 03 you felt he should have travelled for when...
Hopkins refused and at SMW there was Echols who didnt face Calzaghe when it was apparently agreed in a neutral country (Denmark. Tyson undercard) and Brewer and Mitchell and Calzaghe had beaten both of them

I guess you dont think Wilder wants to fight AJ?
He got the big fights dummy, it just took longer and you have admitted above it wasnt due to him with Hopkins having a change of mind

Wrong again. I read the stumbling block was Calzaghe was after the LHW titles and Jones was after the SMW title.

This content is protected

This content is protected

https://www.rte.ie/sport/boxing/2000/0912/151409-boxing/

Indicates here that they were trying to sort something

He did just that on the Tyson undercard.
Why would he need to raise hius profile there? He was a bigger fight for Hopkins and Jones than most of their other opponents

I like how you try and bend the facts.
McIntyre was a late sub for Echols. That wasnt the planned opponent. So lets not try and bend the truth.
Ashira was a warm up for a big fight against Lacy
veit was a top SMW, far better in my opinion than many today and with a greater resume than many of the top 10. Veit also had claim to the title Joe held at one point and has a win over prime Braehmer. Nothing wrong with those impressive wins over Veit

So who are these LHWs that you rate in 03, that he should have travelled to America for?
Jones went to HW so not at the weight
Michalczewki lost and was not in America
Gonzalez was tied up with Erdei and lost, so there was no going to America there
Johnson had a change of mind about facing Calzaghe and had lost to Sheika who Calzaghe beat
Really it was only Harding and Griffin back then. So you think they would be worth Calzaghe dropping a title and travelling for.
Woods was in the UK and had lost to Starie who Calzaghe beat

You have no sensible answer Loudon

Which wasnt America either. Funny how you also mention about Calzaghe travelling to face Dariusz at a new weight and dropping a title when Jones didnt travel for Dariusz in his weight division

He got that wrong with the Lacy and Kessler fights

Salem was one fight and I think that was to try and clear up on the situation of the Veit fight next

Wrong about Johnson. It was at LHW if Johnson beat Woods in the trilogy fight, but Johnson didnt get the decision. Calzaghe was ringside for that one

You're waffling

You write that and with all of the waffling still didnt answer my initial question lol

Asking a question you couldnt answer doesnt make me look bias fool

 

bailey,

1. Again, by 2003, he should already have been fighting in the U.S. at LHW.

2. Considering that he had to starve himself to make SMW and he knew that Ottke wouldn’t unify with him, then any top 20 ranked LHW who was available. He had Showtime’s backing.

What was the point in him fighting those other guys, if at the time, he knew there was nothing at the end of it?

Even if he was? We know that he was. I don’t think he should have travelled for any SMW’s in 2003. Again, he should already have been at LHW by then. Again, he killed himself to make SMW and Ottke wouldn’t fight him. Also, The LHW division had more recognisable names.

Yes, we know that he eventually got the big fights. But that’s not the point is it.

Relishes? Ha! What a joke. It was cringeworthy. He didn’t relish the fight. He just tried to fool the Sun reading casuals into thinking that he was. Once again, he would not fight at LHW. He would not fight in the U.S. when Showtime wanted him to and he had their backing. All that happened, is that he enquired if Roy would fight in Wales at SMW.

The best fighter in the world and the LHW champ, dropping back to a division he’d left 4-5 years earlier, traveling to Wales, to a fight a relatively unknown WBO champ? Please!

It was just designed so that when Roy said he’d want huge money to do that, it made it appear as though Joe had at least tried to make the fight. You may have been fooled, but not me and any other knowledgeable fan. If you want the best, you have to make concessions. Floyd Mayweather was never going to drop back to LWW and fly to Manchester to fight Ricky. Also, these so called enquiries were sandwiched in-between him saying that he didn’t want tough fights and he’d need the Crown Jewels due to the risk factor.

I’ve been telling you for 6 years now, that the only way that fight could have happened earlier, is if either:

1. Joe had created interest in a fight by making waves stateside, fighting common opponents etc.

2. If he’d gotten himself into a mandatory position with one of the main organisations.

You can’t be serious asking a question like that.

He was a bigger fight in terms of a challenge over most of their opponents, but he had no name value. He was relatively unknown until he beat Lacy in 2006.

And that makes a difference? He relished fighting Roy, yet he planned to fight a guy who’d already been beaten twice by Hopkins at MW?

There’s always an excuse. What about Mkrtchyan and Salem? Veit was a top SMW? Nothing wrong with fighting him again, even though he’d beaten him in a single round 4 years earlier?? The WBO were a joke who Joe was happy to fight for.

Griffin or any other available top 20 LHW would have been better than fighting guys like Salem, Mkrtchan and a pointless rematch with Veit.

If he was legitimately injured and he couldn’t fight Glen Johnson, okay, but why didn’t he target someone like Tarver after he’d beaten Johnson? Why fight a guy like Veit again which was pointless?

Nothing funny at all. The circumstances with Roy were completely different. We’re looking here at Joe claiming to want bigger fights at LHW, claiming he’d be willing to face Dariusz in Germany, the WBO giving him the opportunity, but then him changing his mind.

He didn’t get it wrong regarding Lacy and Kessler. They’d done absolutely nothing in 2004.

Again, the Veit rematch was a joke.

Regarding Glen Johnson, many people have questioned the legitimacy of Joe’s 2 cancellations in 2004, for a fight at LHW, as well as his cancellation in 2006. But I believe that their rescheduled fight in 2006, was to be held at SMW. Yes, he agreed to fight Johnson if he beat Woods, and yes, Woods ended up beating him, meaning that they’d split 3 fights. But it could still have happened. A lot of people, myself included, would have preferred a fight against Johnson instead of fights against Bika and Manfredo.