Do you think Juan Manuel Marquez was/is juicing?

Yeah....probability wise, and common sense says he probably did use. But, all these people quoting age and his "massive bodybuilder" physique change simply are almost. ...almost as ignorant as those who say 100 percent no chance he used. Every single pro sport team on the planet, and individual sport athletes have coaches...because sport specific training helps to get the most out of your ability, end of story. Deniers of that are in the dark ages. And 40 is not a death sentence....yes typically decline happens, but changes to anything mentioned previously can help even a middle aged man. Not impossible at all. ....bigger chance for ped involvement!!!!!......but NOT impossible with changes in camp, without them.

 

Agree, absolutely nothing amazing about his body change that cant be done with 2 months of weights and nutrition. In fact, could even say that his KO power was developed from strength and conditioning too.

My reasons for believing he's on juice aren't based on those though, its all the combinations of things I listed in previous post.

 

Never :bart

 

No amount of tractor lifting 'n conditioning will increase anything but beach muscles.

 

Shortly before his KO of Pac I saw an interview with Victor Conte. He was talking about PEDS in baseball and suddenly said "JMM" is on the juice now.

I see no personal gain for Conte to say that.

 

If he did,well that's Karma because a lot of people feel Pac was juicing at some points in his career..

 

This.
The end

 

Agree with all the red flags surrounding him with zero debate....its the things I mentioned that make me take a small step back from just assuming PEDs. It's a small chance it was done clean, but a chance nonetheless. Maybe it's just because of the continuous crap like "he's 40" or "he's huge" that makes me hope it was one of the few cases where actual hard work paid off, cause it's quite laughable to see the massive overreaction to a relatively easily attained "change". Yes, likely ped aided, like I said those ped consultants stick to what they know......but it is possible it wasn't. Maybe a 5 percent chance if I was laying odds.

 

He's clearly juicing.

http://www.fighthype.com/images/content/marquezbeforeandafter.jpg

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/image...hi-res-132639158_display_image.jpg?1349313216

 

Yes, but so has Pac for far longer.

 

the first before and after doesn't look too "clear" but he does look mighty mighty buff in that bottom one. Genetically he is not a soft bodied guy like Barrera can be and always had some muscle - I would still like to give his training the benefit of the doubt - if he was ever up for fights, he was up for Pac 3 and 4, knowing that they were the most important fights of his already hall of fame career. Body alone, as I said before, except in cases of guys with **** genetics for aesthetics like Juan Diaz and Vargas, can't be any kind of final arbiter, especially considering his incorporation of all kinds of strength and resistance training that was more scientific than lifting boulders and drinking urine.

 

Agree with the guys saying proper weight lifting could get you that physique. I think Juan focused on loading up his punches. People saw a more active Pac winning the rounds more convincingly than previously but, don't question why. Well, when you're being more conservative because you're concentrating on loading up, you give your opponent more opportunities. Juan did not immediately answer back as he had before, he wanted the big shots and so waited some to get them...it paid off. That pay off came at a cost of Juan losing the rounds he did more convincingly, there was a give and take here, people see it but, don't consciously recognize it as such.

Whenever guys say Pac was whooping Juan until the KO, they don't realize Pac was beating Juan more convincingly precisely because of Juan going all KO. All that said, yes, I gotta be suspicious of Juan if I was suspicious of Pac. Although I can excuse his away his performance, appearance, and strength and conditioning coach, in the end I can't see how a guy who said he was willing to take the test before does a complete 180 at the height and most suspicious time ever in his career. When things don't make sense, I gotta be suspect. Horrible to feel this way about one of my favorite fighters of all time.

 

Yup

 

Everybody who moves up in weight (gaining muscle mass in the process) is juicing. The normal gains by creatine can't be sustained, the drained types of fighters, just look the same as they move up (Gatti, Mayweather, Corrales, Pernel Whitaker)

Guys who added muscle mass, didn't gain any advantage (P4P), with the ONLY odd exception of nature freak Pacman. He was able to put on massive amounts of muscle compared to his original 100lbs, he is an exceptional success story with roids because of his jumping high spirited style, courage & determination, his body will dis integrate at one point, but he is a legend for doing everything he can to beat down guys from Straw to Junior Middle & have impressionable young champions turn into Jack Rabbits hopping divisions for no reason, then asking for rematches after they been KTFO by natural natives of the divisions they hoped into

 

You have to compare apples to apples, and take all variables into account. In the first pic, one is during the fight after he most like put on some water weight. In the second pic, we have to consider that he had a S & C coach.