Does a prime Jack Dempsey beat the Joshua of today?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by SuzieQ49, May 2, 2017.


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  1. Sting like a bean

    Sting like a bean Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    We know that athletes should avoid red meat? I assure you we know nothing of the sort. It seems fairly clear -though it's disputed - that a diet high in red meat will reduce your chances of living to 80, but there is exactly zero evidence that it would be in an way detrimental to a boxer.
     
    Sting like a bean, Nov 4, 2017
    Sting like a bean, Nov 4, 2017
    #106
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I think it's almost universally agreed now that a varied diet is best, not just for boxers, but everyone.
     
    McGrain, Nov 4, 2017
    McGrain, Nov 4, 2017
    #107
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  3. Sting like a bean

    Sting like a bean Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    That's literally everything modern science can usefully or reliably tell you about nutrition for athletes: eat a balanced diet high in complete proteins and a diversity of fresh produce.

    I frankly doubt that will ever be improved upon until we can actually manipulate the cellular mechanisms of the human body directly, and that's a long way off.
     
    Sting like a bean, Nov 4, 2017
    Sting like a bean, Nov 4, 2017
    #108
  4. manbearpig

    manbearpig A Scottish Noob Full Member

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    'Interval training' rather than long distance running.

    Is that all propaganda from sports scientists as well?
     
    manbearpig, Nov 4, 2017
    manbearpig, Nov 4, 2017
    #109
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  5. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    That's right; but it appears to be the exception rather than the rule up to a certain point. Meat meat meat was what these guys ate. Steak an potatoes was the staple. Beef broth was another staple. American fighters in the first half of the century seemed to believe, at least widely if not universally that red meat should be eaten to the exclusion of other foods. That is no longer to be believed. Up until a point it also seems to be believed that drying out was positive. Joe Louis famously dried out before his fight with Conn for example. That's the HW champion of the world during WWII. That would never be allowed to happen now.

    May I ask, do you think that there has been literally no improvements in boxing resulting in the huge advances in science since, say, 1920?

    How about in the area of injury treatment?

    How about weight-making and recovery?
     
    McGrain, Nov 4, 2017
    McGrain, Nov 4, 2017
    #110
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  6. Sting like a bean

    Sting like a bean Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    Oh, back to the original question of the thread, I see no reason whatsoever that it's not a strong possibility that Dempsey might do to Joshua what he did to Willard, but I'd have to see a lot more high quality footage of both before I could be confident either way. With someone like (say) Joe Louis there's much better footage and I have much less reservation about confidently picking him, though I'd also still like to see a lot more of Joshua before placing a heavy bet.
     
    Sting like a bean, Nov 4, 2017
    Sting like a bean, Nov 4, 2017
    #111
  7. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Interval training is a fine example, because there were always some guys who did it, but it was not done universally because it was not believed to be an advantage in bygone eras. Now it is believed to give an advantage an almost everyone does interval training of some sort (not always running).

    I think it probably had its peak in Carl Froch who pointed to it directly in his fight with Taylor, I think.
     
    McGrain, Nov 4, 2017
    McGrain, Nov 4, 2017
    #112
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  8. Sting like a bean

    Sting like a bean Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    "Interval" training is a new term, not a new practice, and if it's backed by hard science put up or shut up.
    Cite papers.
     
    Sting like a bean, Nov 4, 2017
    Sting like a bean, Nov 4, 2017
    #113
  9. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Could you cite a paper please? Just covering off what you speak about in this post.
     
    McGrain, Nov 4, 2017
    McGrain, Nov 4, 2017
    #114
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  10. manbearpig

    manbearpig A Scottish Noob Full Member

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    Aerbic recovery time (heart rate normalizing) after intense exercise is shortened through interval training compared to low impact endurance training.

    This is not controversial.
     
    manbearpig, Nov 4, 2017
    manbearpig, Nov 4, 2017
    #115
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  11. Sting like a bean

    Sting like a bean Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    I really like your posts so I don't want t be a pedantic ass, but I can't resisting pointing out what you didn't say here.

    You didn't say, "Now it is universally believed to be an advantage, ever since the paper published by Bleauphart and Azkrak et al". You just adverted to the mere fact that almost everyone does it now.
     
    Sting like a bean, Nov 4, 2017
    Sting like a bean, Nov 4, 2017
    #116
  12. manbearpig

    manbearpig A Scottish Noob Full Member

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    Everyone does it now. I wonder why.
     
    manbearpig, Nov 4, 2017
    manbearpig, Nov 4, 2017
    #117
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  13. Sting like a bean

    Sting like a bean Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    A paper in support of what claim?
     
    Sting like a bean, Nov 4, 2017
    Sting like a bean, Nov 4, 2017
    #118
  14. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Sure.

    Same as you.
     
    McGrain, Nov 4, 2017
    McGrain, Nov 4, 2017
    #119
  15. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    Training isn't a science, it's a craft.
     
    reznick, Nov 4, 2017
    reznick, Nov 4, 2017
    #120
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