Does any middleweight pre Robinson beat Mike McCallum?

Marcel Cerdan
Freddie Steele
Greb
Tony Zale

 

Historians rate McCallum in the Top 3 greatest 154 pounders in history. He's also one of the most complete fighters ever.

 

Mike is one of the greatest boxers to ever live.

Some replies on this thread are absurd, to say the least.

 

And Jock McAvoy ?

 

Name 3 known historians who do.

 

Very good yes but great no. His record does not bare this out.

 

Old style film vs the last 70 yrs. Yeah it is. Join a gym. Gtfooh! Love you guys who bang around a little bit in a gym and then act like yr Roberto Duran like knowledgeable because of it. When the fact is yr just a human punching bag with a mouth vs any 2 yr amateur.

 

Fitz is a pioneer of the sport. No one is denying that. But if we are talking head to head against fighters post 1940's that's a big jump for him. It would be like taking the Ty Cobb who was great at hitting 85 mph fastballs in his era and having him trying to hit modern pitchers who have 100mph fastballs and breaking balls that drop out of nowhere. Not to mention, the majority of his competitors where not high level due to baseball like boxing being a sport that drew the color line. Like all sports, boxing has evolved and competition got tougher once all races were allowed to compete.

When I competed in the 80's and 90's even training was so different than it is today. These guys in the gym today have such a better understanding of nutrition and strength training. All of that stuff matters.

Again, no one is saying that Fitz is not an important fighter in the history of boxing. He certainly is but his era was so different from the era that McCallum was in. You probably don't realize this but McCallum was 240 and 10 as an amateur for Jamaica and competed against all of those high powered USA and Sovet amauter fighters in the late 70's. Those programs were stacked with guys that did nothing but train with resources a guy in Fitz era could only dream of having. Again, all of these things matter big time and it shows when you watch film. McCallum also spent years with Eddie Futch and George Benton teaching and training him. Fitz didn't have anyone like that to show him defense and footwork.

 

I only mention my training in the sport because any one that fought can tell the difference between Fitz and McCallum in just minutes of watching both. You are making assumptions about me which are not true. That is fine, we are on a forum and folks can claim anything without having to back it up myself included. I'm moving on from this discussion because it's pointless.

You are going to believe what you want to believe about Bob Fitzsimmons and that's cool. I completely disagree about his era being anywhere near as stacked as the 80's and 90's. In the 1800's and early 1900's there were no amauter programs nationally that were teaching guys proper footwork,techniques,etc and There was color lines drawn which significantly cut down on the talent pool. And before you mention it, I am well aware that Fitz fought a few black men with Johnson being the most decorated guy when Fitz was an old man.

 

Like Zale he was a tremendous fighter in his era. But I personally find McCallum's 30 plus years of never being stopped more impressive when You look at his over 300 pro and amateur fights against the highest level of competition. Eddie Futch and George Benton took a naturally talented fighter in McCallum and made him into a defensive genius.

 

He has five decision losses that were all close fights except for his loss to prime Roy Jones. Roy was in his absolute prime at that time while McCallum was almost 40 and fighting 3 weight classes up from his natural weight class.

 

The Kalambay loss wasn't really close, though. Only on the cards. But I think he won the second against Toney on the other hand.

 

As for the Jones loss, give me the names of other natural 154ers that take peak Jones the distance at 40 years of age. As far as losses go, that's a very honorouble one.

 

Nobody mentioned Henry Armstrong.

 

I thought both his fights with Kalambay were pretty close. Kalambay was just a tremendous outside fighter that had a difficult style to beat unless you could catch clean like Nunn did.

Those three fights with Toney were so good. Honestly one of my favorite trilogies in boxing history. The skill level of both those guys was off the charts.