Does anybody employ the "advances in sports" argument consistently?

I'd prefer to argue from the sports science that my pronouncements are based on. I didn't just watch a couple clips of modern fighters and say to myself "Uh, yeah...those guys look faster." In other words, I'm not just shooting in the dark here.

Instead, I looked at the sports scientists' claims that show the superiority of certain methods in producing all of the objectively measurable advantages: muscle contraction speed, force, endurance, etc. etc. The constant improvement in measurable Olympic sports (track & field, weightlifting, etc.) derive from the very real, scientifically validated advantages that certain training techniques give.

Boxing has been slow to catch up because some modern boxers are lazy, and because other intangibles skew the results by allowing some "old school" people to do better than the sum of their training.

 

Thanks a bunch, Shake. High praise indeed -- and likewise. :good

In truth, I can understand where sugarsean is coming from. It gets annoying when people insult the old-timers without knowing much about them.

For that matter, some bias goes the other way. Most "modern" people will crow about better running times in the Olympics, but they'll ignore the switch to better running shoes and tracks. They'll go on and on about superior weightlifters today, but they'll ignore the near-parity between modern 800 pound steroid-free deadlift records and Goerner's 793 pound record in the early 20th century. And so on.

 

again show me the evidence instead spouting a load of repetitive statments with no evidence of these faster, stronger modern day fighters.

 

Yeah Yeah Yeah

 

J.C. Gomez UD10 Samil Sam. Gomez: 954 total punches thrown

Povetkin UD12 Chambers. Povetkin: 929 total punches thrown.

The list goes on. It is ridiculous to suggest that someone can become world-level fighter without putting in the hard work. You made a valid point that boxers from 30-40 years ago would have to work harder and would have to have more luck avoiding injuries to get to the same level as their modern counterparts. However, that just proves that older generations are always going to be at disadvantage in H2H comparisons.

 

:huh

I already told you. If it's repetitive, it's because it's obvious. Modern training techniques have produced gains in every measurable sport, and have done so in explainable ways (to sports scientists). Boxers are humans. They have the same bodies, muscles, and organs as everybody else. If long-distance running (for instance) sucks for energy system development in almost every other measurable sport, it also sucks for energy system development in boxing.

Posting studies on every aspect of athletic performance from the 60+ years since Louis seems a bit inconvenient. I suppose you could start with Tudor Bompa's books on Soviet-style periodization.

 

Thats the biggest crock of **** ever, show me a fighter today as fit as Ray Robinson & Kid Gavilan who considered long distance runs essential for getting in condition for a 15 round fight

sprints only prepare you body for short burst of action i.e combinations, long distance running prepares the body for the constant movement of a fight aswell as to strenghen and condition your legs,

I seriously doubt you've ever trained or been a trainer in a boxing gym with statements like these, maybe other sports but not boxing.

 

I dont understand what are you trying to say with this, are these some numbers never seen before?? no i did not say no fighter today is fit, but many from past could have and did throw this many punches in fight.
And to get to this level you have to put hard work but someone extremely talented like Solis just doesnt work nearly enough, do not tell me that someone who looks like Helenious, Arreola, Fury etc work hard enough no way, someone gets in shape easier someone harder i know but they do not work hard enough.
And i'm well aware boxers does not need to look like bodybuilders, but just make your best 10 20 heavyweight of all time and you will not find any fat fighters on that list there is reason for that, fitter you are better you will box!!! I'm big Vitali fan but he is not superman he is 40 years old and still looks better than 90% of today heavyweights which is not normal, not on his part but on theirs, i guees they are payed to much or something so they dont work hard enough.

 

Ever?

That's pretty impressive when you think about it, actually.

You're missing the point, though. The human body doesn't become magically different the moment you choose to become a boxer rather than a runner or weightlifter or whatever. Throwing a punch requires the same sort of muscle contractions as a lot of other fast, repetitive movements in sports. There's no such thing as a wrestling muscle, or a boxing muscle, or a swimming muscle.

Like I said, if you're curious, check out Bompa's books. The Soviet sport system (and later the Cubans) trained boxers using the same frameworks that they used for everybody else.

 

Modern professional trainers disagree emphatically with your statement. Could it be that you, like the fighters you champion, are out of touch with the times?

 

look at how bad the quality of today fighters are compared with the 40's, 50's,60's, 70's, 80's & early to mid 90's, its in pitiful a state,

and the top 3 Pd 4 Pd fighters in the world today Mayweather, Pac & Marquez all use long greulling runs for conditioning, so this just further proves the benifits of long runs cosidering the men dominating the scene use them.

 

In the last 20 years of boxing has the heavyweight division ever produced someone as fit and hardworking as Marciano and Frazier, as fast as Patterson, Tyson and Ali, as strong as Foreman and Lison, as hard hitting as Shavers, as skilled as Jersey Joe etc..

Perhaps advancements in supplements, diets and training have made athletes more healthy and fit but it doesn't seems to correspond to better performances in the ring.

 

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Tua and Ibeabuchi set punchstat records in their fight (back in the days when Tua had a work ethic). Vitali also fires a high volume of punches off.

Probably not, although it has had some fast-handed fighters. And when RJJ moved up, he was about the same size as Patterson.

No way to tell. These guys shoved around fighters of 220 pounds or fewer.

Impossible to say. We have certainly seen a lot of powerful punchers.

Heavyweights aren't a great example, since many are fat and don't train. Lighter-weight fighters have performed quite impressively, though.

 

I'd agree with this. The old-timers certainly seemed interested in their craft, and you might make an argument on these grounds.

Again, this sounds reasonable.

That's about what I think. (though we do have some good technicians today, too).