Does anyone at 160 today stand a chance against a prime Roy Jones jr?

Oh, hell no. Imma not getting into it with Loudon on this. You're bad enough

Suffice to say that Canelo has matured into a really good, maybe great, fighter at 160 and, that although I agree that RJJ is one of the top 160 guys in history, it's not clear cut that he's "the best" at all.

 

I was just asking you, no need to spaz out lol. I'd expect 2017 Canelo vs 1994 RJJ to be highly entertaining. A real counter punching chess match. I'd expect MW Canelo to give RJJ a better fight than Hopkins gave him back then. Canelo could even be the aggressor and try to walk RJJ down.

 

I think Canelo would give RJJ a better fight than Hopkins too.

Despite our GGG/Saul arguments, I actually rate Canelo very highly after his performance. Even though I thought GGG won, I felt that Saul proved more than Golovkin did. He is a genuine top 160 fighter, whereas going into that fight I had my doubts. Canelo's big hole is his gas tank. If he can correct that and do what he does for as much as 2 minutes of every round, he'd be a seriously formidable fighter.

 

I don't doubt that once outside the magnetic pull of Gennady Golovkin, that you're actually a pretty reasonable boxing fan. Which is why I asked you about something non-G related as a way to sort of extend an olive branch so to speak and get you into more of an unbiased mindset.

But yeah, here's an area that we agree on. Though I'd favor Roy vs Canelo at MW, in 1994, RJJ at MW wasn't as seasoned or experienced as he was by the time he got up to SMW and LHW. Not only that, but I don't think we can even really consider Roy prime until he moved up to SMW. So you're basically talking about a Prime Canelo vs a pre-Prime RJJ, which makes it a more even fight at MW.

I'd expect a highly entertaining match between 2017 Canelo and 1993/1994 MW RJJ. I think current Canelo would give Jones Jr his hardest fight at MW by far. It would probably be a counter punching duel, a low output sort of a fight with a lot of movement and both fighters trying to set traps. I could see Canelo feinting Roy much like he feinted FMJ but Roy not biting as much as Floyd did and likewise Canelo wouldn't have bit like Toney did from the move Roy stole from a game****. Canelo would have just stood there staring at Roy like WTF is that "lets fight" lol.

It's a dream fight honestly between Canelo and RJJ at MW. I'd expect RJJ with a slight speed advantage to utilize a kind of "get in, land a few punches, and get out" type of style on Canelo and work Canelo from the outside, with Canelo trying to walk RJJ down and being the aggressor. But then Canelo would mix up his aggression with giving RJJ angles and it'd be a back and forth affair.

The only thing I'll add is regards to Canelo's gas tank. If you look how he fought Chavez Jr, he had plenty of gas in the tank, in fact he stood in the corner between every round. I think Canelo became winded vs Gennady because of Gennady's relentless pressure of course but also because after making 164.5, he lost a little stamina coming back down to 160. I'd expect Canelo to have no stamina problems in the rematch after being better acclimated to 160 without having to worry about fighting a much bigger guy and moving up in weight to fight a Chavez Jr then have to come back down a few months later. He has 8 months to just focus on maintaining his weight and he'll build up his usual stamina between now and May. I think you mistake Canelo generally being a patient fighter to being fatigued and taking off parts of rounds. Canelo simply knows how to pace himself and he doesn't throw punches just to throw punches. He waits, he waits, he circles you, he waits for his opening then capitalizes when the moment is right. As long as he's not getting hit while in between punches it's not a problem. Triple G's relentless pressure though does create a good fight because if TG is able to land, then that's going to force Canelo to be more aggressive to even up the round. But I'd expect Canelo to be more elusive in the rematch to where TG will have a harder time landing than he did in the first fight so Canelo won't have to be as aggressive or throw as much as you think he has to but that's what makes the rematch fascinating and I can't wait for it. (feel free to comment on the Triple G and Canelo stamina gas tank stuff but I am more interested to hear your thoughts on RJJ Canelo as that's something you probably won't be as biased about lol)

 

Golovkin could have figured Roid Jones out. Michalczewski would have kocked Jones out at 175, but Jones ran from him............

 

1994 Roy has couple of advantages (reach, speed and stamina) that makes him superior to Canelo 2017 taking consideration their styles. Both are good but styles play to Roy´s favor. 1994 Roy would have problems with a guy that has power, IQ, stamina, great offense and chin.

 

That's a reasonable post.

I won't however, get drawn into this.

1) I just don't have the time to do the subject justice and 2) I'm not as ... hmm, how to put this diplomatically ... intense a boxing fan as you and Loudon.

It's all going to end in tears

 

Besides I gotsta do my tax return today and that sucks enough without me getting distracted

 

Rjj didn't fight a whole bunch of skilled top tier fighters throughout his entire 3 decade career. Nevermind the division he spent very limited time in that had a whole bunch of fighters that could easily KHTFO with a single clean chin checker.

There's great reason he roided himself up to fight far less skilled and far shower fighters in a laughable LHW division, then gets credit for cherry picking ruiz for a joke of a belt.

Same ruiz that had 3 wars with shot to **** Holy who couldn't beat ANYONE with a pulse set that time

 

By replying to his post?

 

GG fighting Roy wouldn't have been akin to Roy fighting Jack.

We'll leave it there.

I've still got to respond to your nonsense on the other thread.

 

Not at all.

Roy wasn't invincible. But I don't think that Canelo and GG would have had what it would have taken to have beaten him.

GG has the power, but he's got a relatively small reach at 70", and he's easy to hit. We all know that. So although he's got great attributes and he's dangerous, stylistically, he wouldn't have given Roy a lot to think about.

Roy's nemesis would have been someone like a peak version of Michael Nunn. A tall southpaw, who possessed a 77" reach, with great speed and a slick style. A guy who could have feinted with him and made him cautious etc.

 

It wouldn't. The discrepancy between Jones and Golovkin is greater in every category by height.

Golovkin 5'10" 70" 170
Jones Jr. 5'11" 74" 180
Dempsey. 6'1" 77" 187

 

Again: The version of Roy who fought Tate was prime.

He was matured at 25, and he fought Toney just 5 months later. So the version who fought Toney was the version who fought Tate, but he was just slightly heavier.

The version of Roy we saw at SMW had the exact same attributes that he had at MW. The only difference, is that he hasn't got a strong MW resume, because he only started to make waves after he'd signed with HBO and split from his father.


Roy wouldn't have had a slight speed advantage over Canelo.

He'd have had a huge speed advantage over him.

You need to go back and remember just how fast he was.

Did you see the gif I posted against Reggie? He was 30 years old at that point, up at LHW, weighing about 180 pounds.

Here:

https://imgur.com/gallery/dkADuyL


Neither Canelo or GG would have been able to have dealt with that kind of speed.

It's okay for guys to point out Roy's knockout defeats along with Canelo and GG's power, but you've got to evaluate how realistic it would have been for them to have had the opportunity to have utilised it.

 

Thanks for sharing your great wisdom.

It's much appreciated.