Does anyone beat Tyson without using excessive clinching?

My recollection may be bad and I may be too intoxicated, but I don't remember Douglas clinching EXCESSIVELY. Douglas did some clinching, but I recall Holyfield doing a lot more holding.

Which is why I thought Holyfield-Tyson 1 was, while good, overrated and a terrible choice for Fight of the Year. A great event and upset doesn't mean it was a better fight than some of the great fights that year like Barrera-McKinney, Gatti-Rodriguez, Kelley-Gainer 1, Liles-Littles 2, Bowe-Golota 2.

 

i agree but disagree.

tyson is a better mid range fighter. his inside game is overrated but honestly he never had to get there often.

 

Doubting Fraizer's chin is silly. NO ONE ELSE ON EARTH COULD HAVE GOTTEN UP THAT MANY TIMES AS HE DID AGAINST FOREMAN. George Chuvalo said Frazier had the best defense of anyone he faced. Foreman faced Lyle a year and a quarter in his first fight since losing to Ali . He went in adopting significant changes to his style. Tyson didn't want anything to do with Grillman George, l think Big George from the 5th ward would have done ok.

 

This idea goes against all conventional thought ,but I believe it has a lot of substance to it.
Don't give him his momentum, he is used to making the fight, get him on the back foot.

 

Vitali could do it too. In the second half of the fight Tyson would be the one trying to clinch.

 

Tyson was just as bad as his opponents for welcoming clinches, he was lazy on the inside truth be told. That's why I think Foreman would have destroyed him, every time he would try to rest his head on Foreman's chest he would be pushed back, squared up and be hit with deadly uppercuts.

 

Tyson was great at handling single shots but fell apart and didn't know what to do when bombarded with combinations. Douglas and Holyfield showed that and even Ruddock had him in trouble late on in their second fight.

 

What I like most about this thread is the title. We all know that Ali could not clinch to save his life, yet most people are adamant a prime Ali beats a prime Tyson.

So, to answer your question, yes Ali beats Tyson by fighting cautiously on the outside, and goes in for the kill when Mike's stamina slowly starts to evaporate.

 

Joe Bugner also said Frazier had the best chin out of anyone he faced.

 

Who tested it?

 

Watch Holy fight Tyson he is constantly physical with him...pushing him around and back on the inside...bullying the bully if you will and making him think. Great fight plan.

 

Going into that fight I thought Tyson was in danger of seriously hurting Evander.
How wrong was I!

Holyfield was physically stronger so it worked, but those tactics would not work if you could not match Tyson's strength imo.

 

Tyson had a very good offensive inside - powerful hooks and upoercuts. Any highlight reel shows at least half of his kos come from inside/short range. But he was a little careless on the inside and prone to catching breathers espcially against much taller opponents as he 'fell' into the clinch usually after loading up from the outside. Plus once inside its easier for a taller man with longer arms to grab you. Most notably later in his career Tyson fought less and less to not be clinched. He was content to load up - bomb a haymaker - clinch -Ref separate - repeat.

 

Good post. A habit from the early days. The old sparring footage of a 17 yr old Mike vs Jimmy Clarke even shows this. Cus berates him "both hands when you get in there Mike. Dont just lay there. You have to score punches".

 

This :deal

I also think Joe Frazier would tear tyson up with his in fighting.