Does anyone believe Carlos Ortiz was the best lightweight - ever?

One of the very best, no question. He's top five for me, probably around three or so.

 

nice interesting view point there. He is definitly one of the best Lightweight champs but Lightweight is so deep you got for me 3 of the most outstanding fighters in Duran, Leonard and Whittaker. Then you have guys that are amazing like Williams and Ortiz who would be near top in any other weight division if you get me?

definitly up there but i would have him about 4th

 

Hard to say imo. As said, lightweights are deep.

 

He's the most proven, dominant champion at or around the weight since Leonard.

 

Ortiz was partying before he fought Laguna , otherwise, I dont think there would have been a series.
I would pick Williams,Leonard, Armstrong to beat Carlos,Duran would be close.Whitaker probably splits a trio of fights with him.
Though I rate Ortiz easily inside a top 10 ,I think Buchanan gives him trouble, both prime.
Mando Ramos should have been more than he was, but lived the fast life.
I can't say any lightweight could beat Ortiz three out of three, his fight with Charnley is a good place to start with him.

 

Jose Torres did. :good

 

My number 5, and above Williams at 6, he has a fine resume and was the best of a great era.

In terms of the thread question then with this guy it really is subjective. Someone could go away now who's never seen him fight before, watch his outscoring of Joe Brown and be quite content to respond here negative. After watching that fight, i personally could only describe him (i was talking to acb), as 'a fighter that wins fights'. That was his role and persona that night. He outboxed and outhustled Brown, who though aged was in his element boxing at range. On another note, Brown was in his element in world title fights. Ortiz would outjab him and just drop in right hands now and then. A whole lot of clinching and rough stuff went on there also.

Ortiz was one of the most well rounded lightweights ever though. He was my long standing candidate to outpoint Pernell Whittaker, not too sure these days but i could still entertain the notion. Ortiz was versatile definitely, fought great and good fighters and beat them, coming across all stylistic propositions. Strong as, and when he exerted pressure through body attacks he could sustain it. One thing that people forget about these days in assessing a fighter's standing is the championship distance, formerly 15 rounds. This needs to be considered more, i'm certain of that.

I'm a bit gutted that i'm troubled calling him the best at the weight and i just won't do it. I made a thread not long ago where i went through all 17 divisions' history and named my most suited pick in three categories- best offensively, best defensively, and most complete. Ortiz got my lightweight vote in the latter category. Like Manassa i hope someone calls him the best, i won't argue. Hope i've given the mystery poster who might do so enough ammo to fire away.

He's clearly a candidate for most proven.

 

Ortiz is another very unflashy fighter, yet an almost perfect balance between puncher and boxer.No needless fancy displays of defence or rash surges of aggression here.

I don't see Buchanan giving him many problems, he could barely do anything against the shot version he did fight.

 

I'm sure you have ,just ruminating :good

ps .I have that Ring edition in your avatar

 

My sentiments exactly