Does anyone believe Fraziers greatness took a hit with his losses to Foreman?

Lamotta threw the Fox fight.:huh

 

Frazier is one of my favorite Heavyweight Champions. He didn't have the physical gifts of many, but the heart that pumped inside the mans chest was indeed fearsome. As many have noted Frazier was never the same fighter after the FOTC. And Foreman will have always had his number. Still I have Frazier in my top 10 all time Heavyweights.

I think back to the 6th round in Manila, and still to this day think that 2 Frazier left hooks that landed on Ali's jaw may be the hardest punches I have ever seen. The sickening sound of those punches smacking against Ali's jaw through the roar of the crowd, and seeing Ali go limp against the ropes made for a memorable fight.

Some have argued that Joe Frazier was mearly great for 1 fight. The FOTC was his crowning achievement yes, but he had laid his claim to the best fighter in the division in Ali's absence over the preceding 3 years. Very few fighters in history would have stood a chance against Joe Frazier on March 8th 1971.

 

This is ridiculous. The Ali who Frazier beat was MUCH better than the disinterested Tyson who Douglas beat and let's not even talk about the Ali who Spinks beat.

Douglas had one great night, but did little else. Frazier beat all the top fighters in his division from 1967-71. Douglas got KOed by one punch and didn't attempt to get up when he could. Frazier got up 6 times when he lost and the referee had to stop the fight. Douglas lost his title after holding it for a few months and disappeared. Frazier was an undefeated champion for 5 years. After losing his title, he came back with some quality wins and had two more close fights with Ali.

 

:thumbsup

 

Oh, I totally agree with you. My point was in reference to a previous poster saying "once an ATG, always an ATG" and seemingly making it sound like Frazier was an ATG simply and only because of his performance in the FOTC (yes, Ali in that fight was probably better and definitely more motivated than Tokyo Tyson).

Of course Buster Douglas doesn't have nearly as impressive a resume as Joe Frazier. And, yes, Frazier's ATG status was certainly cemented by the FOTC.

In judging fighters we have to take several years and fights into consideration, as you did in your post.

 

Frazier will always remembered by the Ali fights not his losses against Foreman
and Foreman itself will more remembered as the oldest HW Champion +
his reputation of the hardest Punching and strongest human in history of Boxing.

 

I loved Frazier but his basically one armed attack does not warrant ATG status.

 

he beat a great in ali, convincingly when no one else did. dominated everyone else except ali and frazier, sounds like a great to me.

 

No he didn't
Spencer
Mildenberger
Terrell
Garcia
Liston
Martin
Foreman
Urtain
Foster. M
Patterson
Peralta
Jones
Cooper
Lewis
Are just some of the rated fighters in that time scale that he did not fight.
What hurts Frazier's legacy more than the Foreman defeats imo is the fact that after defeating him he avoided Ali and defended against two unranked journeymen.

BTW. The Douglas that beat Tyson would have given FOTC Frazier a very hard nights work indeed!

 

Cannot agree more, now Ring Magazine changed their history, erased Frazier's Undisputed Championship victory , over Jimmy Ellis, 2/16/70. Now! Recognizing Muhammad Ali as the World Champion up to "Battle of the Century?"-Did not happen that way!

 

No, you're right it didn't happen that way.....but the fruit flies in this and the general forum, and the suckers that buy a rag like today's ring magazine don't have the knowledge or the attention span to know any difference.

 

I suppose it all depends on whether or not you believe titles recognised in 5 or 6 Murican states constitute WORLD title status.

Because up until Ellis, that is all Frazier won, and defended.

If so the European football championships are being held next year and the winners might just as well proclaim themselves World Champions and say screw the America's, Africa, and the rest of the planet.

 

Not really. I think Foreman was just a terrible matchup for him.

 

Answer to topic question is "none."

It was a terrible style match up for Frazier.

He actually proved what a truly great warrior he was by getting up from murderous punches from a hellacious puncher. I know the simpletons won't understand that, but it is true.

Joe should have retired immediately after the FOTC. He was emotionally done after that fight and never got back into the razor sharp shape he needed to fight more physically talented guys like MA and GF.

p.s. And the second JF-GF encounter shouldn't even be taken into consideration. Frazier was an empty shell of a fighter at that point.

 

I don't you think you will find a single post on this forum ( and possibly not anywhere on the internet ) disputing Frazier's bravery.

The simpletons are the ones who state this automatically grants him ATG status. The unbiased simply debate his right to said AT greatness.