Does anyone believe Fraziers greatness took a hit with his losses to Foreman?

No.. It did not take a hit. But it did lessen his chances in hypothetical match ups in the minds of many boxing fans and experts.

 

Oh Christ. That's what hurts his legacy the most? That he "avoided" Ali AFTER he helped Ali get his license back so he could fight him, then he faced him, then dropped Ali and won a clear decision.

You negate all that because he didn't give a guy he clearly beat an immediate rematch?

You listed a bunch of lower ranked fighters, but the fact is Frazier fought everyone in the rankings rated ABOVE those guys.

Frazier DEFEATED Muhammad Ali (the lineal champ), Jimmy Ellis (the WBA champ), Jerry Quarry (the #1 contender), Oscar Bonavena, Buster Mathis and George Chuvalo. And he lost his crown to Foreman.

He also defeated the world light heavyweight champ Bob Foster.

Ali and Foreman were better than everyone you listed. Frazier fought them. Ellis and Quarry were the top two heavyweights during Frazier's reign. Frazier stopped both of them. Bonavena, Chuvalo and Mathis were highly rated during that era as well. Frazier stopped two of them and decisioned Bonavena twice.

Most of the guys you listed were considered washed up before Frazier even won recognition in New York or didn't become factors until later.

You seriously hold it against Frazier that he faced Foreman, Ali, Ellis and Quarry but he didn't fight Henry Cooper? Did you really write that?

And Jose Urtain? Urtain didn't even turn pro until after Frazier fought Mathis. When was Frazier supposed to fight Urtain exactly? Before or after Urtain lost to Joe "King" Roman and Juergen Blin?

Frazier may not have faced all the ninth-rated guys you wanted him to face, because he was fighting the #1 guys.

So you don't have to keep holding anything against him.

 

Did I say that his getting up off the floor against GF "automatically grants him ATG status"?

His ATG great status was established by.....

1. Dominating the heavyweight scene from mid-'67 through March of 1971.

2. Prevailing in the most important fight of the 20th century, in a legendary battle of unbeaten heavyweight champions in which each understood that this was the "moment" and where each were closest to their actual peaks.

3. Lastly, and least importantly, summoning his diminished abilities for one last, remarkable effort in his last championship fight against an ATG and coming very close to winning.

 

Frazier was a great fighter. Beating the linear champ Ali was a great achievement.

I do wonder, as probably everyone else, what would have happened if Ali had not been stripped and been inactive for three years. A defense by Ali against Frazier in 1968 or 1969 may have been a truer indicator of Frazier's worth vis a vis a prime Ali. I am sure threads have already been dedicated to that question.

 

Your right about the six states -Frazier, i'm talking about after he defeated Ellis -unification bout 1970-then he is/was World Champion Ali officially retired his end of the belt, now that they have rewrote history Ring now states, Ali defended against Jerry Quarry and Oscar Bonavena- those were both scheduled for 15 rounds but they were not title fights!:silly