Does anyone put Canelo over Barrera, Morales & Marquez...?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Ted Spoon, Mar 4, 2021.


Page 1 of 28
  1. Ted Spoon

    Ted Spoon Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,282
    1,082
    Sep 10, 2005
    I ask because it appears some do.

    For me the last true Golden Era of boxing was forged by Marco Antonio Barrera, Erik Morales, Manny Pacquiao and Juan Manuel Marquez. Admittedly, this 'era' is a bit vague (there's almost 13 years between Barrera-Morales I and Pacquiao-Marquez IV), but their bouts were always top-drawer.

    As Canelo Alvarez continue's to add to his legacy, talks of becoming Mexico's Greatest have multiplied, but are we all getting a little giddy? Does this not have as much to do with success blinding as it does with actual accomplishment?

    Canelo has yet to soar like his smaller countrymen. Barrera, Morales, and Marquez all had show-stopping moments. Each, on a few occasions, made convincing cases that boxing is the best sport on the planet, a battleground where the the most decorated warriors fight when it matters.

    Saul's biggest rival, an aging Golovkin, was a hurdle he scuffed...twice. I, like so many, scored the rematch a draw. I did not see El Gran Campéon. I saw a quality fighter hit a ceiling. Is Marquez's clear victory over a jaded Barrera worth more? As we all know, it's not even Dinamita's best win.

    In Canelo's last three fights I have not "witnessed greatness" like some say. He's turned in good performances over beatable men. It's that desire to believe we're witnessing something which is more telling. This over-emphasis on the now. Take the win over Callum Smith. Looks good. Undefeated record, imposing size. Winner of a WBSS tournament. Then scratch the surface. Arguably lost previous bout to John Ryder. Come fight night he tucks up and is happy to hear the final bell...

    19 years earlier, Erik Morales defeated unknown South Korean, Injin-Chi. Already had an L on his record, only fought in the Far East. Difference was Chi pushed El Terrible, showing what you can't manufacture - a winner's mindset. Later became champ. Don't think he was ever floored. Is this virtually forgotten win better? One guy actually came to fight. At least puts this "witnessing greatness" into perspective.

    This isn't a case of being negative, its about asking for a moment of sobriety.

    If the boxing world has to keep telling me that Canelo is great and P4P king then they're obviously not palpable qualities. You don't have to convince me that Salvador Sanchez was great. I've seen him bust up Danny Lopez and Azumah Nelson. Quality oozed from the man. The fact is, to earn the kind of praise he's getting, Canelo would have to do what he likely won't - revisit 175 and cause trouble.

    He's improved, he's got a rock for a chin, and that head movement is fantastic, but where's the x-factor all others greats had?

    Am I stating the obvious, or just a hater? :)
     
    Ted Spoon, Mar 4, 2021
    Ted Spoon, Mar 4, 2021
    #1
    Maidanas Gun Tattoo, channy, Brixton Bomber and 10 others like this.
  2. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft He Who Saw The Deep Full Member

    27,131
    44,901
    Mar 3, 2019
    People do, but they shouldn't. It's stupid.
     
    George Crowcroft, Mar 4, 2021
    George Crowcroft, Mar 4, 2021
    #2
    Jackomano, aaalbert, MannyMMA and 14 others like this.
  3. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    112,986
    48,065
    Mar 21, 2007
    I mean, he's pound-for-pound for Ring, TBRB, weird mainstream stuff like TalkSport, number 2 for ESPN. I haven't seen a list with him lower than 2 recently.

    I think he's probably rated number one by a the majority or organisations that have an interest in this type of thing.

    That puts him right in the neighbourhood i'm afraid. You can't be the best in the world and not in that argument.
     
    McGrain, Mar 4, 2021
    McGrain, Mar 4, 2021
    #3
    Brixton Bomber, Holler, Blaxx and 5 others like this.
  4. The Real Lance

    The Real Lance Boxing Junkie Full Member

    9,069
    10,444
    Oct 29, 2012
    How many times has he fought the best in the division he holds titles in?

    He did at 154 and 160, although a majority of people know he got an undeserved draw and win at 160.
    His top wins at 154, Lara and Trout, were too close. And neither trout nor Lara have proven to be anything other than really good, for a moment. Neither are HOF calibre.

    He has not at 168, has not at 175. Of course, that's not to say he doesn't have time on his side.

    People have been talking about the decline of boxing for a long time. Too many belts per division allows those w/ power to pick and choose who they want. Canelo's been able to do that as boxing's #1 cash cow. Franchise belts, Silver Belts, Super world Belts... I'm with those who see the decline of boxing in terms of numbers and overall quality. He might be considered the best of his era, but the frank reality is, his era is terrible.
     
    The Real Lance, Mar 4, 2021
    The Real Lance, Mar 4, 2021
    #4
    gurmon, Brixton Bomber, eltirado and 4 others like this.
  5. Gatekeeper

    Gatekeeper Well-Known Member Full Member

    2,367
    2,987
    Oct 18, 2009
    The best in the World in a weak era, factor in all the other controversies surrounding Canelo and he's not in the same league as those ATG's.
     
    Gatekeeper, Mar 4, 2021
    Gatekeeper, Mar 4, 2021
    #5
    Jackomano, MannyMMA, Tankatron and 3 others like this.
  6. Eel87

    Eel87 Active Member Full Member

    966
    450
    Nov 10, 2014
    Tony Jeffries says he's the greatest boxer of all time and Tony never lies.
     
    Eel87, Mar 4, 2021
    Eel87, Mar 4, 2021
    #6
    Sweetfiend and Somali Sanil like this.
  7. Ted Spoon

    Ted Spoon Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,282
    1,082
    Sep 10, 2005
    It's more this King narrative.

    I feel his #1 standing is dependent on Crawford and Inoue stalling.
     
    Ted Spoon, Mar 4, 2021
    Ted Spoon, Mar 4, 2021
    #7
  8. panchman69

    panchman69 Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,111
    1,892
    Sep 10, 2012
    canelo has lost all of his biggest fights lara, mayweather, golovkin.
     
    panchman69, Mar 4, 2021
    panchman69, Mar 4, 2021
    #8
    Dannymita, Thanos, FastSmith7 and 2 others like this.
  9. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    112,986
    48,065
    Mar 21, 2007
    I kind of agree with that and I could see them passing it back and forth based upon activity. But the point is he's right there. I think boxing's lulled a bit behind Manny and Money in terms of strength at the very top but it still means he's in these type of discussions. If you're the very best in the world at something, even if he's sharing it with three other guys, he's there in those chats now.

    I would definitely have him below Marquez though, I think that's clear. But the boy isn't finished.
     
    McGrain, Mar 4, 2021
    McGrain, Mar 4, 2021
    #9
  10. Quina74

    Quina74 Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,569
    4,470
    Apr 25, 2019
    These Canelo threads are getting out of hand no. Canelo's a hypejob fraud.. Mods pls
     
    Quina74, Mar 4, 2021
    Quina74, Mar 4, 2021
    #10
  11. Pakkuman

    Pakkuman I'm not hot. I'm just BIG. banned Full Member

    7,672
    9,381
    Jun 26, 2019
    They all had ATG dance partners. Clenelo has only one and he was washed.

    The correct answer is not just no, but **** no.
     
    Pakkuman, Mar 4, 2021
    Pakkuman, Mar 4, 2021
    #11
    Tankatron, Thanos, FastSmith7 and 3 others like this.
  12. Salty Dog

    Salty Dog globalize the Buc-ees revolution Full Member

    10,252
    5,925
    Sep 5, 2008
    This is a great and reasonable post. :clap: I've been sayin' it and I'm gonna' keep sayin' it: this new crop of potential ATGs are blowing it bigtime. They all need their foil. Their epic opponent to give their greatness context. But they are mostly spoiled. Hadda' look it up, but allow me to quote Dazzie Dee: "Everybody wants to be a gangsta', but nobody wants to do gangsta' ****".
     
    Salty Dog, Mar 4, 2021
    Salty Dog, Mar 4, 2021
    #12
  13. sasto

    sasto Boxing Junkie Full Member

    12,534
    16,092
    Aug 5, 2020
    Everyone will land on a different answer but I appreciate Canelo for taking a shot at it, he's by far the closest of P4P fighters his age to that kind of legacy.

    The big problem for him is he doesn't have enough contemporaries who are really making a run at greatness. He had an aging Mayweather and an aging GGG and he fought them, with a similar degree of success that JMM had fighting Floyd and Pac (until the end, and we may not have seen the end of Canelo/GGG).

    And there's no lack of guys who have the physical talent to be those great opponents, they just don't have the same ambition and willingness to take risks. He can't help it if the #1 contender Smith didn't come to win. Canelo can't make Plant fight a few dangerous opponents to build himself up and he can't make Benavidez lose weight. He doesn't control these things.
     
    sasto, Mar 4, 2021
    sasto, Mar 4, 2021
    #13
    JunlongXiFan and The Real Lance like this.
  14. Young Terror

    Young Terror ★ Griselda ★ Full Member

    7,510
    7,329
    May 9, 2012
    Most who do that are Floyd fanboys in their weird way of trying to make Floyd look better they say Canelo is better than those and some even go as far as say Canelo is the best mexican fighter ever. Its just fanboys being fanboys.

    Ps to add to that they hate Golovkin too so its just guys with agendas.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2021
    Young Terror, Mar 4, 2021
    Young Terror, Mar 4, 2021
    #14
  15. iceferg

    iceferg Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    16,348
    2,312
    Apr 25, 2008
    I think he's been given a me I am rival in the form of David Benavidez and I think Benavidez can beat him. He is good though.
     
    iceferg, Mar 4, 2021
    iceferg, Mar 4, 2021
    #15
    boxingjunky likes this.
Page 1 of 28