Does Anyone Rate Wlad ahead of Lennox

I would say 60-40 Lewis if they fought.

 

I do not.

Although, I rate both highly.

This ended up being the closest we ever got to seeing them square off.

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"That would only be a compelling argument if top fighters were forced to fight them and didn't have the option of ducking."

I believe were the words you were responding to from some other jabroni. I can't for the life of me see where you attempts to detract from that notion. I might be too stupid to follow.

That said, which ratings do you mean?

You mean those promotional ratings for sale in a promotional magazine?

Or do you mean those sanction body ratings that come from meetings with promoters?


You go on and tell me how these ratings fit your idealism. I don't mean that as sure as it sounds, your ass might be right I just don't see it scro.

 

I was going to attempt to make some sort of case for Wladmir, but these points are very hard to overlook.

The only thing he really has over Lewis is his longevity (which has an asterisk because he failed to ever get undisputed and no serious A level marquee wins as you said), and a few h2h/skill intangibles such as having an arguably crisper jab, perhaps better defense, etc.

 

Why is this so difficult for some? He avoided the best out there for a decade. No pass for not fighting Vitali. I fought my brothers every day for 10 years. Wlad is very comfortably outside the top 10. And Lewis is a lock inside the top 10.

So ya no case at all.

 

I've always had Lewis ahead, but I think a case can be made for Wlad.

Yes, I agree that his losses are worse, but he also went 11 years unbeaten and was sooo dominant during that reign, Peters being the only one who managed to really ruffle his feathers. I mean, considering how much we look at Liston's, Fraziers, Foreman's, Marciano's and Tyson's best 3-4 years, shouldn't such a long stretch of utter dominance count for a lot?

Maybe the fact that Lewis beat his Fury is the decider, though.

 

Voted Lewis, but it's crazy to me that this is much more lopsided than the Mayweather-Marciano thread.

 

Why? Every poll is significantly influenced by who people like more as much as who was better.

My recent favorite was the guy arguing page after page about how he thought Tszyu had a better resume than Hamed while also refusing to even name more than one or two of Tsyzu’s scalps and dismissing the Phillips loss.

 

His longevity is for sure and quite often the perch upon which his supporters will rest their case for Wlad's [typically high] rating - and there's no denying he had an extended run as the dominant heavyweight. It's just that he held that position during a relatively weak era.

The intangibles for Wlad you mentioned, like a crisper jab or an arguably better defense than Lewis, are valid. But the way these tools were applied further reveals the gap in their respective ceilings, in my opinion.

Lewis's jab was more versatile, employed in a wider variety of ways, adapted to different opponents and situations. It wasn't just a tool of control. Lewis frequently used feints with his jab to disguise his intentions and disrupt those of his opponents. He would vary the speed, rhythm, and target of the jab (body, chest, head), which confused opposition of all levels, sizes and styles, creating the opportunities for his big power shots.

Wlad primarily used his jab to maintain a strict, long-range control, often as a deterrent. While effective, it was largely one-dimensional, designed to prevent opponents from getting close rather than setting up varied offensive combinations. And, while Wlad's defense revolved around distance-control or clinching, Lewis was prepared to rely on what I would consider to be his superior reflexes and reaction times, with a willingness to trade when necessary and consciously outdo his opponent.

Lewis demonstrated adaptability and a rare fight IQ, I think. He found ways to beat highly skilled technicians (Holyfield), sluggers (Ruddock), and even a physical specimen like Vitali Klitschko (who shared some attributes with his brother).


So, yeah - in the end, the longevity alone (along with a number of 'what ifs' surrounding Wlad's skills, if they'd have been more widely tested against higher caliber opposition) can't outweigh the clear and meaningful achievements of Lewis's career, for mine. It's a fair discussion, but one that always seems to lead back to the same conclusion - Lewis stands apart.

 

I'm not particularly confident in either of them surviving a big right hand from the other. Might be a real short fight one way or the other.

 

True. In some ways I could see it going a bit like Wlad-AJ with some deviation of course.

 

No way. Wlad is top 10, Lewis top 5.

 

I have Lewis higher than Wlad but rather anomalously make a fight between them a genuine 50/50. I think Manny and Wlad perfected the style he implemented for big Len after his house came tumbling down around his ears, and that Wlad whilst not nearly so exciting as his younger self was a hard man to beat. If it was a pure boxing match I think I favour Wlad, but both men could take a nap quickly if caught flush. Interesting fight and one, perhaps strangely, I've never considered till now...