Does anyone seriously blme David Haye....

I see, your mentality is 'I don't have to prove **** all to you' and by extension Haye doesn't need to prove **** all to anyone either... got'cha.

If you're still struggling to figure out what Taylor's significance was to Froch all I can say is that currently Taylor is the biggest 'name' on Froch's resume, just think about that, and at the time was realistically the only fight available for Froch. Froch needed Taylor to make a name for himself, Wlad does not need Haye's 'name', not yet, not until his name appears in slightly larger letters so to speak.

And, yes, the fight with Haye had this and a few other forums buzzing and outside in the boxing world at large nobody gave a damn. The boxing fans at large couldn't care less.. if they did then Haye's team would have delivered Chelsea stadium as easily as Wlad delivered Veltins-Arena and nobody would be pulling out due to a "bad back".

 

So out off all the world title fights that have occured over the years when the challenger got a decent split of the purse, your case is so flimsy that you have to dig up one title fight from 50 years ago as an example of what Haye should have done....??atsch

This isn't a "Best of the Best" Kung Fu film. He's a professional fighter, he wants paying, is that so hard to understand FFS?

Haye said several times in the build up that this was the deal (Bunces boxing hour for one). Wlad never contridicted this at any point, I'd say it reasonable to believe its true.

 

I dont blame him 1 bit. He signed a contract, and Sentana wanted to go back on it. Cant blame a man for not wanting to risk his health/life for free.

 

[quote=the_brigand;4428845]I see, your mentality is 'I don't have to prove **** all to you' and by extension Haye doesn't need to prove **** all to anyone either... got'cha.

If you're still struggling to figure out what Taylor's significance was to Froch all I can say is that currently Taylor is the biggest 'name' on Froch's resume, just think about that, and at the time was realistically the only fight available for Froch. Froch needed Taylor to make a name for himself, Wlad does not need Haye's 'name', not yet, not until his name appears in slightly larger letters so to speak.

And, yes, the fight with Haye had this and a few other forums buzzing and outside in the boxing world at large nobody gave a damn. The boxing fans at large couldn't care less.. if they did then Haye's team would have delivered Chelsea stadium as easily as Wlad delivered Veltins-Arena and nobody would be pulling out due to a "bad back".[/quote]


Damn thats actually quite a good response , not what i realy meant , but a good response nonetheless

and the Taylor point has some credence I'll accept that but I still cant see how that means Haye wasnt deserving of his shot :huh I mean for gods sake Wald was happy enough to sign !

I would disagree however that boxing fans at large didnt give a damn but netiher of us will be able to PROVE ( ) that either way.

and you're confusing a lack of interest in boxing in the UK with a lack of popularity for Haye.


What I had issue with was people saying Haye didnt deserve his shot and I just can't see how thats true !

Anyway I'm off home so I wont be posting for a couple of hours if you wish to continue this.

...and lets stop kicking each other in the balls now too eh ? :good

 

If my boss told me, "Hey ******, will you come in and work this week for free? We could really use the help, and you would make corperation really happy." First I would ask him if he was joking, and if he said no, I would go tell him to go **** himself and if your looking for someone to **** in the ass, you got the wrong guy.

I wouldn't of even faked an injury, I would of told Wlad straight out "I'm not going to fight you for nothing, unless you draw up a new contract for me, you could go fight someone else." Alot of people also dont realize he would have to pay for sparring partners, his trainer, his cutman, manager etc... So even if Haye would decide to fight Wlad, he would of ended up losing money for fighting a guy that he should be getting his biggest paycheck for.

 

No it happens all the time where challengers take less money to fight the champion to just get there shot. Because unlike Haye they have true belief that they will win.

If Haye thought he was going to win, then what risk at all would he be taking?

 

No. Haye talked great **** and if Haye realy believes that he would win, he should fight. Fight the Champ and win and than Haye could have make great money.

Pulling out of the fight shows how Haye realy believes in himself.

 

You got to be ****ing kidding me, would you go to work free for a month? I didn't think so, thats what your asking Haye to do. So whose going to pay for his cutman, trainer, manager, sparring partners etc... I know Wlad's not picking up the tab.

I dont know about anyone else, but I would be damned if someone had the balls to ask me if I would get my brains bashed in for free by the heaviest puncher in the division.

 

Challengers frequently take less money than the champion to get a title shot, what they very rarely take is NO MONEY which was pretty much what Haye would have been getting after Setanta went bust.

BTW if it "happens all the time" why do you keep using an Archie Moore fight from 50 years ago as an example?

I'd guess Haye was confident he could win (most fighters are) but was also realistic enough to understand that there was a decent chance he could lose (one of the fighters ends up losing in most fights) so he wanted paying to refect that.

I honestly can't even believe this is a subject up for debate, some people are just living in some sort of fantasy world. A professional boxer pulls out of a fight because he's not getting paid and people are up in arms??:nut

 

Your analogy is missing a a few essential correlations with the Haye situation. Let's say that in your example your income over the next year would triple if you succeeded at your job... are you really working for free?

In Haye's situation, he would not have been working for free to make people happy. He would have been working for free to win the title. Having the title then guarantees good paydays.

So it is only working for free if he loses. If he wins then he is working to dramatically increase his near future earnings.

The problem is that this is a pretty big gamble. As people have said - were he confident that he could win then it would be a sensible gamble. Let's say he realistically gave himself an 80% chance of winning then it would be a good gamble. If he gave himself a 50% chance then maybe not.

As has also been pointed out - if he loses it isn't just working for free... it is working and having bills to pay... and then probably a huge hassle legal issue with trying to get some money from Setanta's administrators or whatever.

Of course, even if Haye put on a good show while losing he could double his income over the next few years. Look how much Vitali's stock rose after being defeated by Lewis.

It all got weighed up. I think Haye is the gambling type. But he didn't like the risk versus the return. So he folded. I can't blame him, my assessment of the risk/reward is the same. Just not worth it.

 

See. They just cannot get past their personal hate and think logically.
You're wasting your time Punisher

 

Are you kidding? You told me over and over again that Wlad panics under pressure. Haye believes he will win or do he not believe it?

Fighting for free? What´s the matter if he realy believs that he could win? Haye said over and over again how easy it will be to win against Wlad. And know Haye wants the money more than the fight against Wladimir to become World Champion?

But i am serious, Wlad wants the event and wants Haye. So Haye had called Wlad and talked to him and i am pretty sure that Wlad had paid Haye. Wlad lost money because HBO pulls out, so the money would not be the problem for Wlad because he wants the event.

Haye is a liar and he fakes an injury. How serious can he be taken? Haye is a cheater for faking an injury and this is very disapointed for boxing fans.

 

Ok, no more ball kicking, it's unmanly.

I'm not of the opinion that Haye was completely undeserving but until he started dogging W.Klitschko very few people outside the UK or outside the boxing diehards knew who he was. And who was he? Aside from the fast and devastating puncher at CW? He was a guy with the reputation(not my words) for having low stamina and a weak chin (which he kind of admitted to before the Maccarinelli fight), not exactly a candidate for the second coming.

So what you end up with is a guy who, if beaten badly as most recent Klitschko opponents have been, wouldn't have done a lick for W.K's career and probably ended his own in the process. And had he won? He would have been a relative unknown who once again managed to touch the fine crystalline chin of Klitschko and reinforced the idea that this is the weakest era in HW history, or so people would say. So who does this help? He'd get the same respect that Sanders and Brewster got after beating Wlad, with the odd exception that suddenly the myriad of Haye fans that have been ridiculing Wlad's past foibles will suddenly be trying to prop him up as an ATG for a change.

When Haye first approached W.Klitschko it was a bit of a spectacle, some still debate if it was staged or not because it as too perfect. Haye saying he's coming after Wlad, Wlad telling the upstart to get in line. Promotionally it was fantastic, best script ever! But in the end it's the many boxing FANS that are asking Haye to prove himself first, not Wlad... Wlad was willing to sign on the line while so many of us were more interested in how Haye would do fighting a legit Heavy contender before taking on the King.

 

Look, if you're still not convinced then I'll just quickly point out.. Hatton took the 'express' to get to FMJr and FMJr is still getting **** for beating up a smaller man. JMM is taking the 'express' to fight FMJr and FMJr is going to get even MORE ****, instead of respect, for beating a smaller guy. Had Oscar beaten Pacquiao the fans would have vilified him and never let him live it down, certainly we're not letting him live down the loss.
I know you're a Haye fan but look at it from a Wlad fan's point of view for a bit and imagine the unimaginable (because it's very easy to imagine the underdog wining when there's little at stake if he loses), what kind of treatment would Wlad have gotten had he sparked Haye out in the first few rounds or, worse, allowed the fight to go the distance?

 

I will tell you why I keep bringing up Archine Moore because he is a HOF, it is a classic story that students of boxing are familiar with, and it underlies the truth that Haye's talk was just that.

If Haye had come out and said I am not going to receive any money for the fight then arrangements would have been made and the fight would have gone forward. Klitschko wants this clown so bad he can taste it, he would have made sure that Haye received something for the trouble of getting his a$s kicked. Further, if Haye came out and said this from the beginning then fight fans such as myself would be a lot less critical. Instead we have heard all this BS about injuries and such, when really it comes down to he wasn't going to make enough to get humiliated by Wlad in front of the whole world.