Does anyone under 200lbs beat Frazier or Marciano?

I never said Usyk struggles with light hitting boxers I said hes had issues with pressure fighters.

You keep bringing up the punchstats but that's not how it looked in the ring, Usyk wasn't that impressive and had issues with Chisora losing 4 rounds on my card it wasn't that easy. And as I said Chisora is not a top 10 ranked contender and he isn't close to Frazier's level regarding being swarmer/pressure fighter.

You don't seem to understand what I'm saying you brought up Frazier looked less than stellar in some fights i questioned what ones ? And could only think of Bonavema and Foreman. Two fighters who are not remotely like Usyk. One is a tough rugged slugger, the other one is one of the hardest hitting Heavyweights of all time.

You're bringing the knockdowns without much context, a majority of them came from one fighter being George Foreman.

Again the 1st Bonavena fight was very early in Frazier's career, and Foreman was just a horrible style match up and a devastating puncher to boot. None of the attributes of the fighters above are remotely like Usyk so it's irrelevant regarding how Usyk/Frazier match up.

I'm not saying Frazier would win easy vs Usyk, but I don't really see how a light hitting boxer like Usyk who throws pitter patter punches, is going to be a good style match up vs an ATG swarmer/pressure fighter.

 

Actually, I also brought up Mike Bruce.

Usyk vastly outlanded Chisora and staggered him in the seventh. It was not a hard fight.

Usyk is not that light hitting, he is just primarily a boxer. He turns it on when he wants. He staggered Chisora, Joshua, and Hunter without finishing them.

The only hard fight Usyk has had...which he won cleanly...was Briedis, who is a hell of a fighter. I am saying that Frazier did struggle against lesser fighters.

 

You're bringing up Frazier's 2nd professional fight vs Mike Bruce that's not really relevant is it ? And he stopped him in 3 rounds that's not really struggling.

Even Frazier's fight vs Bonavena which I will give you was Frazier's 12 professional fight.

What I'm trying to say is Bonavena and Foreman stylistically aren't really relevant regarding how Usyk/Frazier match up, because Usyk is nothing like them nor does he hit anywhere near as hard as them at Heavyweight.

Breidis/Chisora are more relevant because those fights show you can make Usyk uncomfortable with pressure, and I don't think Usyk has the firepower to stop Frazier coming in.

Another main concern to me is Usyk's weakness to body punching.

 

Doesn't seem he'd stand up to Frazier's body attacks.

 

Yes, the chin is always relevant. Makes no different what fight it was. UsyK has never been down in his career, so...

I understand the style argument...I disagree with it. Chisora was not a tought fight by any metric, and Briedis, who Usyk clealny beat, is just a very good fighter. Neither fight shows anything wrong with Usyk.

Nor does Usyk have any weakness to body punching. He has never been down.

 

I don't count Usyk as a cruiserweight TBH. Even at cruiser, he comes in the ring at well over 200. Usyk is larger than most old time heavyweights. Liston was considered a giant in his day and he was 6'1 212-215 pounds in his prime. Usyk is at least as large as a 1960 Liston.

 

Jack Dempsey is the only one who would have stood a chance

 

Maybe Holyfield... James Toney would have been interesting too...

 

A case could be made for Billy Conn? He’s younger faster, and can possibly win on points if he boxes smart?

 

Usyk is almost identical to Ali in every dimension. Height, weight, reach, etc. You could probably take a suit tailored for one and put it on the other and have it fit perfectly.

Usyk is a 70's era HW who dehydrated to make 200 -- if you consider guys like Ali, Holmes, and Norton as HWs, then you have to consider Usyk a HW.