Does Cleveland Williams hit hard or really hard?

I don’t know but I gave him an 8.5 on the options that you provided. I think that in order to be a 9 or 10 you have to fall into the Foreman, Shavers, Tyson category

 

Cleveland Williams did hit hard, he broke Sonny Liston's nose in April 1959 before being stopped by The Big Ugly Bear. Williams was sure a pounder but Lady Luck was not on his side especially on Nov 30 1964 when he was shot by a Texas State Trooper during a traffic stop, the Trooper claimed the Williams was intoxicated behind the wheel. Williams had just heard the announcement from the WBA that he was going to meet Ernie Terrell for the vacant WBA title on March 5 1965, it would have been their third meeting. The WBA title had been stripped from Muhammad Ali for granting ex champion Sonny Liston a rematch, which clearly violated the rules of the WBA.

 

Gotta be a 10 surely?

In the history of heavyweight boxing, of all the hundreds of legitimately world class fighters over decade after decade Cleveland Williams is literally in the top handful of guys in terms of how hard he hit.

If he's not a 10, he's at worst a 9.5 on that basis.

 

At least an 8/10 during his prime.

When Liston praises a guy's punching power, and Foreman still remembers it as an old veteran of over 70 fights across 20+ years of boxing experience, that guy obviously hits very, very hard.

 

Once again: Who was the best fighter Williams knocked out? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Anyone? *crickets* Oh you mean he has absolutely zero quality KOs? Ok. So why are we pretending he has legendary power?

 

Foreman and Liston attested to it as stated above.

That will do me.

 

That's only one part of the story tho and certainly not the be all and end all. Who was the best fighter Cyclone Hart knocked out? We know he hit like a mule on steroids. There are myriads of other examples.

 

The guys on the receiving end seem to be unanimous on the question.

 

Oh I see, so its a competition between who could hit the heavy bag the hardest... Got it.

 

Cleveland Williams could certainly bang but I think it seems to have gained some legendary status he doesn´t deserve.

His ko of Ernie Terrell in their 1st fight is noteworthy and his punch was a problem for Terrell in the rematch as well in his fights with Eddie Machen (draw) and early on in the 1st bout with Liston. But does he punch harder than other contenders like Ruddock, Cooney, Ron Lyle or even Jerry Quarry who I think would have destroyed him.

He fought two greats in Liston (x2) and Ali and lasted a total of 8 rounds. Bob Satterfield (a cruiser nowadays) knocked him uncouncious in 3. Jake Lamotta knocked Satterfield out. Enough said.

 

As did Terrell.
Williams prime was cut short.Who are the best ko victims of Earnie Shavers?
A washed up Norton and a washed up Ellis.

Who is Curtess Sheppard's best ko scalp? 180 lbs Maxim?

 

Aaaah, and now the old story about his prime being cut short... Williams was 31 years old and had been boxing for 15 years when he was shot, immediately after which his doctor said he would make a full recovery. Then when Williams fails to beat the best fighters he faces, just like he did before he was shot, his prime is suddenly cut short. LOL. And who said anything about Shavers? Frankly I consider Shavers in the same boat as Williams in having an incredibly padded record of KOs without really being able to prove it against quality opposition. So, again, if the question is who could hit the heavy bag hardest then have at it, I just find that a meaningless "statistic" (if you could even call it that) and a waste of time.

 

Who is the best fighter Tommy Gomez ko'd?

Your argument revolves around who did Williams ever ko who was of real note?
I gave other examples,Shavers and Gomez . How about Morrison and Ruddock,or Tua .were they feather fisted?
This is part of your rebuttal.
"immediately after which his doctor said he would make a full recovery".
The procedure and results of his surgery was as follows.

According to the police report Williams resisted arrest, and the officer's .357 magnum revolver went off during an ensuing struggle, hitting Williams in the stomach and lodging in his right hip. Williams underwent four operations over the subsequent seven months to address injuries to his colon and right kidney. The right kidney ultimately had to be removed in June 1965. Doctors could not extract the bullet, which had broken his right hip joint and caused partial paralysis of some of the hip's muscles, over 10 feet (3.0 m) of his small intestine had to be removed, and nerve damage affected his left leg above the knee and caused it to atrophy as a result.[4] Hugh Benbow, his manager, and Sonny Liston, former world champion, visited Cleveland Williams in the hospital. After his partial recovery Williams was fined $50 and briefly jailed after pleading no contest to charges arising from the incident."

That's your definition of a full recovery , Dr Compton?

Apart from you ,who said anything about heavy bags?

Williams entered the ratings in;
1961 at no7
1962 he was no 6
1963 no 4
1964 no4

So he achieved his highest ranking immediately prior to being shot.That suggests to me he was in his prime ,in fact , at 31 bang in the middle of it.

 

Many have said that Williams was a hard puncher but the results in the ring do not back that up. Most of his wins were less than spectacular.

Williams was the first of the body building group of Heavyweights that would come later, and he was positively one of the best built heavyweights and Big for his day but with a record of 35-1-1 Big Cat was Ko'd by 5"10 184lb Bob Satterfield and his best wins were not spectacular.

I heard the sparring stories, and a lot of guys gave him props but sparring is sparring, and stories are stories and results are results.

Big Cat had the look.