Does current Canelo beat Mayweather he originally faced?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by 80s champs, Nov 6, 2021.

  1. shadow111

    shadow111 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    What was your point? Wasn't it that what happened vs Chop Chop would make you think that Pac would have annihilated him? But then we saw what happened in 2015, when a limited Pac couldn't do anything but get completely outboxed in route to a boring wide UD for Mayweather. At least Canelo vs Floyd was more exciting but the same principle applies, that was a limited version of Canelo, even compared to Canelo from before and after he fought Floyd. The version of Canelo who fought Trout or Lara would have done much better against Floyd, as Canelo didn't have to deal with the kind of distractions vs those guys that come with fighting Floyd. Not just the catchweight but also the De La Hoya drama. Canelo did the best he could against Floyd but he was a distracted fighter who couldn't prepare normally.

    The point is that you can't base what would happen based on results over limited or unhealthy versions of fighters. Better versions of Pac and Canelo would be favorites against Mayweather. The stars had to align perfectly for Floyd to ensure he had the kind of advantages he needed to get wins over them.
     
  2. Spongebob south paw pants

    Spongebob south paw pants Active Member Full Member

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    Don't really get that if someone dominates the ring and limits your space and Canelo definitely wouldn't stand off Floyd and try and work outside why would he play to Floyd's strength's, but that equally limits Mayweather's options too. If Mayweather went for the stand and trade on the inside route bad day right there. So as I see it they would both have few options
     
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  3. shadow111

    shadow111 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Look we're not talking about what happened in 2013. We're talking about what would happen now if this Canelo fought that Mayweather. You can't pretend Canelo is the same fighter now that he was back in 2013 when he fought Mayweather. That was Loudon's main point and it's well taken.

    Of course we have the persistent problem of pretending like their 2013 wasn't close and was some kind of Floyd domination. But even if you believe it was, it still doesn't have anything to do with what Canelo now would do to Floyd. We have to realize that Canelo was not in a position to beat Floyd when they fought. It was very much a learning experiment for him rather than a fight that would tell us what would have happened with both at their best.
     
  4. kirk

    kirk l l l Staff Member

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    Here's a simple task.

    Factor in all the spindoctoring, the contexts, and the conditions of the fighters, ect ect.

    After you do that... if you could please do this simple task...

    Rank 1 to 3 who is ultimately the better and more dangerous fighter.

    The Chop that wobbled Floyd. ..

    The 152lb Canelo he fought...

    And the Pac he fought.

    Could you rank them for me in terms of danger and quality/level?
     
  5. Cobra33

    Cobra33 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Of course Canelo has improved as a boxer. He most definitely has learned things just like every boxer does.
    But what of Mayweather? He can't or didn't improve?
    And guess what? When Mayweather fought Canelo Mayweather wasn't in his PRIME was he? Everybody forgets that.
    If you matched them up at the peak of thier abilities Mayweather has too many skills for Canelo its that simple.
     
  6. shadow111

    shadow111 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    There are areas that Mayweather is superior to Canelo in. When it comes to preparation, and getting up for a big fight, when it comes to putting together a gameplan tailored for a specific fighter, no one is better than Mayweather. When it comes to working behind a jab, when it comes to boxing fundamentals, Mayweather is superb in that area. But when it comes to natural talent, explosiveness, upper body movement, power punching technique, etc Canelo has him beat in these areas.

    So Mayweather and Canelo are very different fighters, each are better in certain areas, which would make it unpredictable what would happen if they fought at different times in their career.
    Mayweather was P4P #1 and undefeated. The argument that he wasn't in his prime at that time is really just spin to make it seem like Mayweather wasn't at his best anymore. That was arguably the best version of Mayweather when we're talking about the combination of mind + body. No one's arguing that he was at his physical peak but he was arguably at his mental peak with his body still in great condtion. The mind can compensate for a lot even when the body is no longer peak. Look at Sugar Ray Leonard, he was well past his prime physically when he fought Hagler (who was closer to his physical prime than SRL when they fought) but we saw what happened there. SRL completely outboxed Hagler who didn't prepare well. SRL's preparation and gameplan was superb that night.

    So you can compensate for being past your physical best if you put in the work in the gym and have a healthy mind as Floyd did when he fought Canelo.
    It's not that simple. You're just making that argument which is simply your opinion.
     
  7. shadow111

    shadow111 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    If you're asking who was better and more dangerous, Chop Chop, 39 year old Mosley, 152lb Canelo or Pac I'd really have to think about that. Mayweather was also much more inexperienced when he fought Chop Chop as was he when he fought Castillo so we're not talking the same Mayweather either. The level of preparation wasn't what it was if we're talking about later on when he fought Canelo or Pac.

    Don't you think 35/36 y.o. Mayweather would have prepared better for Castillo or Chop Chop? Also I think what happened against Mosley was because Mayweather didn't prepare as well beacuse he thought Mosley was washed up and thought he could just walk him down, and because he was lackadaisical there he got caught and nearly dropped. He also had problems against Judah early on. This is why I don't buy the argument that Mayweather was really past his prime when he fought Canelo, because he didn't have the kind of problems he had earlier on in his career when he was at his physical peak because he knew how to prepare better as he got older, even when his body was in decline, he was more experienced and knew more tricks to take advantage of inexperienced fighters, particularly against top competition that he knew he had to be at his best in order to beat.
     
  8. Cobra33

    Cobra33 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Most pro boxers don't consider thier mid to late thirties thier "prime years" because they aren't and that's even more so the lighter you go in boxing.

    Your insane if you think Canelo has more natural talent then Mayweather.

    Ray Leonard had alot of time off and that did wonders for his body. Hate to tell you but Hagler was not in his prime. He was slowing down and if you know Ray you know why Ray all the sudden wanted to fight Hagler.
    Prime for prime Hagler beats Leonard and it isn't even a question.
    They had that fight almost made a couple of times and everytime Leonard declined.

    I like Plant. And I think Saunders was a pretty good boxer too. And they are great wins for Canelo.
    But neither one of those guys are remotely close to Mayweather in ANYTHING.
    And Plant gave Canelo problems and Canelo adjusted. But Plant is no Mayweather. Not even close.
    And to be honest I can't stand Mayweather but he is very talented boxer as much as that pains me.
    GGG outboxed Canelo in thier first fight. GGG.
    Who is underrated as a BOXER but if GGG did it what would a Mayweather do?
    And let me tell you firsthand this: you cannot compensate for being past your physical best. Its a tale we tell ourselves as we age to make us feel better. Once it starts to go it doesn't stop. You can adjust to it and that's about it.
    I actually saw Hopkins when he was a young pro in Atlantic City I believe and it was well before he was a champion. Impressive physical specimen especially in person. I mean a beast. And man he put a beating on that boxer.
    Fast forward and I got to see him again Probably 12 years latter in person. Impressive still and more refined per say but NOTHING like 12 years prior.
    So Mayweather while maybe pound for pound when he fought Canelo was far removed from the boxer who dazzled us vs Corrales.
    This is a very fun debate. Thanks for debating with me by the way.
     
  9. boxingjunky

    boxingjunky Member Full Member

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    Cut it out. Were you also one of the guys saying Andre Ward would never fight Kovalev and after having a close fight with him the first time, saying he would def avoid the rematch. SMH it never stops
     
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  10. Aussie Invader

    Aussie Invader Boxing Addict Full Member

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    mosley's fast, so like judah, no-one should have been surprised that floyd got hit early.
    but their speed doesn't last, while floyd's does.
    mosley and judah were sitting ducks once they lost that speed advantage.
     
  11. PernellSweetPea

    PernellSweetPea Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    yes, he would still control the action with distance which is how he won fights. Controlling the distance and using his countering speed when they got close, and if he was on the ropes using his shoulder. Canelo still would not have a jab to get to Mayweather. STyles make fights. Who is confusing Plant with Mayweather, and I am not a great Mayweather fan.
     
  12. kdyehs

    kdyehs Member Full Member

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    I saw Mayweather being hit only 2 times in his whole career. Once against Mosley. And one time against Judah - the only time he went down but was not counted. And that's it.
     
  13. Spongebob south paw pants

    Spongebob south paw pants Active Member Full Member

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    This is one of those that could be debated in circles for years. Personally think canelo would out work him and basically grind him down. With the power canelo is carrying now it would only be a matter of time before he hurts Floyd once he got inside would really open Mayweather up rattle him
     
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  14. Ricdog

    Ricdog Member Full Member

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    I don't deny it that Maidana had many miles, I'm infact saying Mayweather fought fighters that already were well spent and had taking punishment. So why is it wrong for Canelo to do the same? Some are saying that Cotto and Mosley weren't good wins cause they were old and close to retirement.
     
  15. kiwi_boxer

    kiwi_boxer "I won 11-2" - Teofimo Lopez Full Member

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    :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:











    No one agrees with you or your alts.













    Didn't read.
    :SimpHomer: