Does Dempsey get a rough ride over the colour line?

I said, " two of " , not "the biggest".
Jeanette was 40 years old, and had been beaten by Tom Cowler in his last fight.

 

Wills won a newspaper decision over Jeanette in 1914. I see boxrec changed it to a draw, but I believe their are a few papers that had it for Wills. Bottom line is that a very raw Harry Wills fought at least on even terms with a near vintage Joe Jeanette. Jeanette appeared to have aged very well from what I have read on him.

Speaking of the 40 year old Jeanette, Wills officially beat...This is the same Jeanette in which Dempsey climbed out of the ring against. Take it how you want.

 

To be fair though Dempsey had been told that he was fighting some bum, and he only withdrew at his managers insistence.

 

This was a charity do was it not ? Do you think it reasonable for Jeanette to be substituted at the last moment, [I beleive it was a freebie too ]?
You are not an admirer of Dempsey, Suzie ,but I wonder if you might be more tolerant of his actions, if it was a fighter you liked?

 

McVey, you are 100% correct...There are posters that are so DAMN obsessed on their Hatred for Jack Dempsey, that facts are meaningless to them...Foe example-There is visual proof of Jack Dempsey and Harry Wills
signing for a bout for Floyd Fitzimmons in front of several prominent witnesses..This is a fact whether it fits their AGENDA or not...Furthermore to imply that Dempsey who signed up for an exhibition with some boxer,and a 40 year old Joe Jeanette shows up as a substitute at the last second...Why should Jack Kearns go through with this illegal ploy ?
He would have been a damn fool to go through with this charade...
Their hatred of Dempsey holds no bounds IMO...

 

Are you serious with the Sharkey comment ? Did you hear that Holmes also stopped Ali ? I mean, come on ..

He time and again demolished a still very dangerous Langford that Dempsey would never touch ..

Two points are basically undisputable ...

1. Wills was the number one contender from the end of Willard's reign through Dempsey's reign till his loss to Sharkey at 37.

2. Dempsey did not fight him.

I say it all the time ...

Dempsey men are not honest about who he did not fight while Marciano guys are not honest about who he did fight ... same sh-t, different thread ..

 

So the fact the ,Dempsey and Wills, did sign for a bout for the NJ
promoter Floyd Fitzimmons, shown by PHOTOGRAPH, is not enough
evidence for the Dempsey naysayers ? IT is a fact that they DID sign for a fight, that is beyond dispute from the photos shown and from so
many boxing articles I have read these many many years..
What should any reasonable person without a visceral hatred for a man
[Dempsey] conclude? They did sign for a FIGHT, period...

 

Correct ,mcvey
Joe Jeanette was 40 years old,and beaten by James J Corbett's protege
Tom Cowler , who in turn was kod by little Jack Dillon..
And Demposey and Wills did sign for a fight which fell through, and this is
a fact...
I too woulkd have liked to see Dempsey fight Harry Wills, but it never came to pass.
I too would have loved to see, Ray Robinson take on "murderers row', in
particular Charley Burley, who my dad saw once in NY,m and raved about
his 1rd ko..This too never came to pass.
I would have liked to see Joe Louis take on Lee Q Murray,Curtis Sheppard
Lem Franklin, Harry Bobo, superior fighters than some of Louis's victims,
but that never occured....Do I HATE Robinson and Joe Louis for that
career decision ? Hell no, so why should ONLY Jack Dempsey be so
reviled, by some posters eighty years after his last fight ? Doesn't seem
accurate or fair to my eyes...Keep punching...

 

The number one contender, at the end of Willards reign was Dempsey.
coming off 11 straight wins, 6 in the 1st rd and 1 in the 2nd rd.

Wills was 37 when Sharkey beat him, but Godfrey was 29 .

Question ,why didnt Wills fight Godfrey?

When he fought Dempsey , Sharkey was on 13 straight wins over the likes of,
Wills
Gorman
Smith
Solomon
Maloney
Risko
In case you missed it, two men will fight for a version of the title in Oct ,one is 39 the other 2 months off it.

Lennox Lewis was nearly 38 when he stopped Vitali Klitschko, one of the participants referred to above.

"I say it all the time".

"If you repeat a lie often enough, people will begin to beleive it"
Joseph Goebells.

 

I just don't think this claim about Joe Louis is fair to Joe. He was in the army when he didn't fight these men. He was not free to fight anyone.

This is the list of the #1 ranked contenders from 1937 to 1948 in the yearly Ring ratings:

1937--Max Schmeling
1938--Lou Nova
1939--Tony Galento
1940--Max Baer
1941--Billy Conn
1942--Jimmy Bivins
1943--Jimmy Bivins
1944--Melio Bettina*
1945--Billy Conn
1946--Tami Mauriello
1947--Jersey Joe Walcott
1948--Jersey Joe Walcott

The only one Louis did not fight was Bettina. He fought Baer before he was champion, and Bivins after he was champion.

Dempsey's case is different. The Ring ratings began in 1924 and the #1 contenders for 1924 and 1925

1924--Harry Wills
1925--Harry Wills

Dempsey did not fight Wills. I don't think it was his fault and I'm going to post an excerpt from a writer claiming to have known why this fight didn't come off right from the horse's mouth (or at least Tex Rickard's) later today when I have the time.

*As for Sugar Ray Robinson, you are criticizing him for not fighting men out of his weight class.

**Interestingly, if you take Louis out of the ratings, Bettina is the only top-rated heavyweight Louis did not fight between 1929 (Jack Sharkey) and 1955 (Rocky Marciano), or between Tunney and Patterson.

 

In 1943 Charley Burley was fighting welterweights such as Holman Williams and welterweight Cocoa Kid, while Robinson was boxing the likes of Tony Motisi, Maxie Berger, Harvey Dubs, Noreman Rubio,Ruben Shank etc, guys that were rank amateurs compared to Holman Williams, Cocoa Kid,and others, that Sugar Ray Avoided...It is a fact... So why not hold
Robinson to the same standards that you holkd the much maligned
Jack Dempsey to...? What is good for the goose is good for the gander.
the old saying goes...
Why did Louis [my favorite Champ] not tackle the many black fighters available in his time instead of Simon, Buddy Baer.? I believe they would
have posed a greater threat to Louis, and they were not nearly the
drawing cards that Simon and Buddy Baer were...Boxing is a business,
and Dempsey, Louis, Robinson did what their mentors advised them too.
To dwell on one man [Dempsey] and disregard what other great fighters
practiced more or less, is incorrect I think...I admire any great fighter for their courage and abilities, just entering the squared circle..So with
Jack Dempsey,included !

 

Well put good sir.

 

Louis said his management did not want him fighting Bettina, because he was a south paw ,and would make him look bad."Chappie said no one looks good against a south paw".

Louis was in the Army when he fought Simon the second time , he volunteered 3 days after beating B .Baer the second time. I have nothing but admiration for Joe Louis, and the way he carried himself as champion,he twice defended his title for training expenses, the proceeds going to the Army and Navy Relief funds.
I think the reason he did not fight Ray etc was financial, but the fact remains he did by- pass some black challengers towards the end of his reign.

 

Interesting to see who you admire.

Back to boxing: I was specifically commenting on Wills. Since you insist on doubling down on your position, let's be specific. Are you saying Sharkey defeated a prime Wills or are you simply trying to spin a question into other directions since you have been called on it ? A simple, direct answer is requested.

 

Dempsey doesn't get a rough ride, he gets a very smooth ride for being a HW Arturu Gatti, who never proved himself great and when he stepped up got thoroughly schooled as men such as Dempsey/Gatti do when they step up