Does Freddie Steele Ranks as a Top 5 (or 10-15-20?) Middleweight of All-Time?

He was a common opponent but McAvoy was well over the middleweight limit (and closer to lightheavyweight than middleweight) when he fought Risko.

And Steele wasnt "forced" to fight LHWs because he wasnt one like Jock at this time, Steele (scarcely, literally like once or twice) came in 1 or 2 pounds over but could easily make middleweight and usually weighed around 157 at middleweight.

Why would a guy usually weighing 157 be expected to fight lightheavyweights, exactly, he wasnt expected to.
Why was a guy who weighed 168 expected to fight and "forced" to fight lightheavyweights and not middleweights, well the answers in the question, he was well over the middle limit.

Also, in your quote you say he was forced to fight Lightheavyweights but also mention Risko who was a middleweight that McAvoy beat while he had a weight advantage? Confusing.

You cant have it both ways, Jock did make middleweight again later on once Steele wasnt even champ anymore I believe. But during this time he either A. couldnt make middleweight, B. wanted to campaign at lightheavyweight, or C. wanted middleweight fights while he wasnt a middlweight and wanted a significant weight advantage while also campaigning at lightheavyweight.

He didnt weigh in as a middleweight around this time and got his shot at Lewis for the LHW title who weighed close to what Jock did and lost. You also said much larger Lewis, Lewis only had 4 pounds on Jock whereas Jock would have had around ( if Steele weighed anywhere from 157-161) Jock with a weigh advantage of 7-11 pounds on Steele around this time.

Around the time of the Risko beating he wasnt a middleweight though, if he wasnt a middleweight and wasnt campaigning as one around that time I dont see why he should get a title tilt?

He got a title shot against Lewis (who was close to his weight) and lost.

Isnt that fair since he wasnt a middleweight and was around 168 around then? Closer to lightheavyweight than middleweight. Im sure if he wanted to campaign for the middleweight title or fights against middleweights he should have gone to that division instead of just getting fights against them or getting a 'title tilt' just because he wanted one while having a significant weight advantage.

Once Steele won the title McAvoy had just lost his last two fights

And during Steeles reign McAvoy was fighting as a LHW


I dont know if youre a Jock fan but I guess I understand favoritism for peoples favorite fighters but based off this I dont think you should be saying Jock lost out on politics etc.


Ignoring all this though. A fight between them, while weighing in as middleweights.

I mean, im asking you, while weighing lower than say 161/162 what are Jocks best middleweight wins. He lost to Thil at middleweight who isnt levels above Steele and it wasnt like this was far away from the version that youre proposing who beat Risko, the Risko fight was in the same year as the Thil fight.

 

I think I covered most of this in my post , but you said it better:good

 

Bump.

 

Yes he is top ten.

 

I flip flop between #10 and #11 for him in terms of Middleweight greatness

 

Top 10 for sure; you could argue 5 I guess.

 

Regarding your suggestion that Steele didn't have great power, I want to point out that Steele turned pro just after his 14th birthday at a weight which today would be considered a light flyweight. He had a long apprenticeship in four- and six-rounders, both because of his youth and because boxing was technically illegal in the State of Washington for the first six and one-half years of his career (boxing became legal on July 1, 1933). This meant that most city authorities (local authorities were charged with enforcing state law when it came to boxing) permitted "boxing exhibitions" in "private clubs" only if they were limited to four or six rounds. Turning pro so early and engaging in so many short bouts naturally impacted his career kayo percentage.

I would also point out that he was the only fighter to kayo middleweight champions Vince Dundee and Ken Overlin. He also was one of two fighters to cleanly stop Fred Apostoli, the other being Ceferino Garcia who defeated Apostoli for the NY version of the title. Apostoli did suffer TKO at the hands of Bobby Volk in 1947, but that was due to a first-round cut, which Fred avenged 38 days later by stopping Volk in three rounds. Apostoli, of course, later evened the score against Steele late in his career.

 

I think hes criminally underrated

 

I may be wrong, but I believe he suffered a broken jaw in the car accident & the rib/cartilage injury was sustained while training for the Apostoli rematch, which initially caused the fight to be postponed, & then was re-injured in the fight itself & continued to resurface for what remained of his career.

As far as his historical ranking, I think he could rank anywhere outside the top 5 (which would be SRR, Greb, Monzon, Hagler, & Hopkins IMO). He might've cracked my top 5 if he'd been able to sustain his run @ the top just a bit longer. H2h, I'd make him no less than 50-50 vs. any mw outside my top 5. I also consider his 2 rnd destruction of future lhw champ & hw contender Gus Lesnevich to be 1 of the most impressive wins ever by a mw.

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He turned pro as a teenager fighting well below mw. His power emerged as he filled out into a physically mature mw.