Does Haglers Draw With Antuofermo & His Win Over Duran Hurt His Standing?

Hagler was "young" the first Vito fight...and a lot of people thought he would just walk over Vito. So Hagler boxed more and really never 'took" the title from the Champ. But judging was different back in those days.

 

Hagler did gas late against Antuofermo, who conclusively proved himself the best conditioned MW in the world with the Corro-Hagler I-Minter I trilogy. Veteran scribe Bob Waters wrote that Vito won 11 of the 15 rounds, and in reviewing that match after reading what Waters described, I was able to discern what he was seeing in Antuofermo's favor.

MMH learned a lot though. If their rematch had also gone the championship distance, Marv's straighter punching and superior combinations would have given him a decisive UD win. He knew for their return that he couldn't overpower Vito physically, wear him down, intimidate him or knock him out, he had to win with superior punching skills for neutralizing Antuofermo's strength and stamina.

Following Vito's brow shaving surgery, I did not expect a stoppage on cuts, and I don't believe Hagler did either. Marv had already experienced that he badly underestimated what a difficult target Antuofermo could be to land a clean punch on in their draw, so Hagler's punching was especially sharpened up for their rematch. "They're only southpaws until you get inside," was one of Vito's favorite axioms, and Hagler wasn't about to permit him inside a second time.

I consider Antuofermo I and Marcos Geraldo to be developmental bouts for MMH, essential to his ascension as a dominant champion.

Duran for Hagler was Tommy Gibbons for Dempsey and Ezzard Charles for Marciano, proof that Marv could win over the championship distance. (Marciano-Charles I is huge for Rocky after the way JJW had been beating Marciano in their first bout. That Ezz could be knocked out had previously been established, but not that Rocky could cleanly decision an ATG boxer of that caliber.)

El Cholo was riding a high off of Bronx Davey Moore, and there was no evidence that anybody could do to Duran what Hearns was about to. Hagler took the sure and conservative way to the win by being the bigger man, standing his ground as such, and forcing Roberto to make the concessions to movement. I think Duran gained a lot more from Marv than any questions raised about Hagler. How would the Panamanian deal with a situation where the other guy never had to take a backwards step? Quite well as it turned out, and that was something which really hadn't been determined before.

Quickish stoppages of Antuofermo I, Duran and SRL would have added nothing to Marv's legacy except additional questions which we instead have answers to. We discovered his abilities and limits in every respect except what it might have taken to dent his chin and body in competition. We know he reached his prime with Minter, likely peaked prior to Duran with Sibson and Scypion, and had his prime end with the war against Hearns.

So far as I'm concerned, getting the draw with Antuofermo and win over Duran also establish that he would have then cleanly decisioned the MW contender he was least likely to stop before the final bell if they had ever squared off, Dwight Davison. For a hustling Sibson, DD was like running into a brick wall, and Sibson-Davison is the bout that repeatedly flashed in my mind as I watched Tyson-Bonecrusher (along with remembrances of how James was moribund through the first nine rounds with Bruno).

As with Duran and Bennie Briscoe, I don't believe Dwight Davison is a guy Hagler would have attempted to stop, unless one of his power jabs happened to create that opportunity. I expect him to decision DD with superior hand speed and hustle on the inside, combined with perimeter movement on the outside behind his long right jab.

 

Brilliant post. I think Hagler lacked the self belief of a Monzon, so he didn't say "**** what Leonard, Duran or Antuofermo can do, I'll fight MY fight and overpower them!"

Gil Glancy said in the Leonard fight that Marvin was trying to prove he could outbox Leonrd, and he was right.

Hagler could have worn Leonard down by fighting ugly and brawling, but let Leonard dictate terms. I still had it a close fight, but Marv didn't do himself justice.

I think the Antuofermo fight was the biggest knock against Hagler. Sure, Vito was a hard *******, but Hagler should have backed him up and bullied him. At times(although I thought Hagler won)it was the other way round.

I don't see Robinson or Tiger being bullied by Vito.

Still a huge Hagler fan, though. Hardly had a physical flaw, basically very good at everything.

Mentally, though. ....

 

It's interesting viewing, if for no other reason than you get to see Hagler legitimately get his azz handed to him. He got smacked around but good in that fight.

 

No. He deserved the nod over Vito, and the Duran fight was scored closer than it should have been. I think he beat both guys something like 145-141

 

:happy:thumbsup

Post of the day. I really enjoyed this. You put down some interesting perspectives.

 

Interesting post. I always felt Marvin's weak link if any was mental. Having to call himself Marvelous. A bit concerned about his own stamina. He came very very close to punching himself out in his first defense against Fully Obel and held back againstvDuran a bit for the same concern. He truly was exceptional when he overcame that fear and went ***** to the wall as against Minter, Vito 2 and Hearns.

 

Great post.

 

The win against Duran hurt Marvin a little. Do you think Monzon or Zale go the distance with Roberto Duran.

 

Well........frankly yes. Monzon was indifferent to KO's. Lots of guys went the distance with him and smaller though he may have been, Duran was resourceful.

Zale I'm less sure of, though one could argue Duran would beat him.

 

I think he beat Vito with about 3 rds and Duran with at least 6-7, but the Duran fight might hurt how I see him in h2h matchups against smart skillful fighters, at least taken together with his loss to Leonard. He just looked outwitted in both and like he would be clearly outboxed without his physical advantages.

On the other hand, it might just be that he didn't have two of his best nights.

 

I must have been watching something else because I gave Vito 3 rounds tops.

 

Has no bearing on anything.

Vito fought a great fight that night and he fought his heart out. Watched it live. Hagler toughness was tested here and he went 15 hard rounds.

Duran is an ATG of monumental proportions. He fought a clever fight but in the end was overwhelmed by his larger and stronger opponent. Saw this one live also. Beating an ATG is a feather in ones cap not a detriment.

 

Doesn't Hurt his standing at all to anyone that does research. He beat Vito the draw was a robbery.
A competitive fight with Duran who is an ATG is totally acceptable even if he was the smaller man.