Does Harry Wills have a case to be ranked higher than Jack Dempsey?

It should go without saying that Greb is an atg. Now please get your agenda driven self together and **** off.

 

"Very little, given that no one was world class."

Gunboat Smith was not world class? I suppose McMahon might not have been, but what does this say about Willard?

"Fulton was the outstanding contender"

He stopped Langford on cuts. Langford had lost five times to Wills by this time, including in his fight immediately before fighting Fulton.

You simply dismiss Wills beating Langford, but why should we? If Wills beating a younger Langford doesn't matter, why should Fulton's win matter all that much. If the Langford Wills beat was only old and fat, when did he suddenly become young and slim?

And the thread is about whether Wills deserves to be ranked above Dempsey. I don't see a good argument that Fulton should be considered better than Wills despite getting KO'd by him. Fulton was a guy who got KO'd by both of them.

 

"Norfolk lost to Greb"

Seems more a matter of opinion. The newspapers were split. Norfolk seems to have been well on the way to winning the second fight on points when Greb was DQ'd for fouling. Lots of foul fights in those days.

Those four guys you mention beating Norfolk. What do they have to do with Norfolk beating Miske twice?

Larsen beat Norfolk on a foul, and was KO'd in one in a return. Smith won a ND decision from Norfolk and then lost one.

But Norfolk is a guy who was KO'd by both Langford and Wills.

"all time greats are Dempsey, Wills, Langford, and Gibbons."

Interesting opinion. My opinion is that the ATG's are Langford, Wills, Tunney, and Greb, but Langford is from a pre-Dempsey period for the most part.

 

I'm literally quoting the eyewitness accounts of the fights you buffoon. Gibbons did get the better of Greb.

Lol @ " I have been posting here since september of 2005? " Idgaf you're annoying and agenda driven. Dempsey doesn't even know who tf you are yet you're going 15 rounds with his nutsack.

 

You said that clearly the black fighters were a lot better than the white fighters but that can't be true because Norfolk, one of the top black fighters of the 1920s was getting beat by mediocre white guys.

When I say those 4 guys are atgs that isn't to say there weren't others. Those were just some that pop into my head at the time. I don't think in terms of having to cover all bases as if I'm scared to get into an argument or that I'm scared of not being 100% consistent 100% of the time.

 

"was getting beat by mediocre white guys"

He lost to Larsen on a foul. I don't think a foul loss necessarily proves much. Norfolk KO'd Larsen in one in a re-match. Smith held a win over the heavyweight champion at the time, Willard. Do you consider him, let alone Greb and Gibbons, mediocre? And Norfolk was KO'd by both Langford and Wills. He was only able to hold his own with the white guys on the whole. None of this deals with the point that Norfolk defeated Miske twice.

What about John Lester Johnson? Second tier black fighter. What did Dempsey do with him? But I will give Dempsey this. He learned. He drew the color line for the rest of his career.

 

Smith beat Willard all the way back in 1913. When Norfolk lost to him, Smith had only won 2 of his last 8 fights. I consider that version of Smith to be mediocre. The only impressive aspect of Dempsey's win over him was that Dempsey was able to knock him out so early when everyone else was going the distance or losing to him.

Norfolk defeated Miske twice, two decisions. Dempsey knocked him out. The last two fights Miske had Bright's disease. The second Norfolk fight is split on the newspapers. One says it was easy win for Norfolk, the other says it was a close fight. The more likely outcome is it was a close fight. If Miske didn't have Bright's disease maybe he could have pulled out the W.

The Dempsey that fought Johnson was living on the streets and self admittedly didn't know how to fight (hyperbole meaning he wasn't nearly as good then as he was in 1919). This is rather easy to believe considering he got knocked out in the first in 1917 and got on a blazing path of first round knockouts once he hooked up with Kearns which allowed him to eat and train properly. This idea that he never fought a black fighter again because of a few broken ribs against Johnson is preposterous and unsubstantiated. Dempsey was also smaller than Johnson when they fought. You're ignoring everything else. It's easy to practice revisionism, it's hard to look at everything and come to a likely conclusion.

 

Do you seriously think you're fooling anyone?

"Tommy Gibbons lost the decision after a 15 round bout last night with Harry Greb, that was expected to develop the next opponent for Jack Dempsey. His arms flying around like the spokes on a speedster, Greb tore into the St. Paul boxer from the opening gong and set such a pace that Gibbons couldn't keep up with him and could never set himself for one of the punches that were expected to drop the jumping jack in front of him or take some of the steam out of what seemed to be a perpetual motion machine. As a fight it was a disappointment. It was furiously fast and hotly contested, but the impression stood out all over that either one would be easy for Dempsey. Neither Greb nor Gibbons was punished. Both bled a little around the mouth. Beyond puffed lips neither was marked at the end of the battle. Gibbons looked as if he had left himself in the gym. He has more speed than he showed. Against the flying Pittsburgh boy he looked slow and awkward. He allowed Greb to do the leading and set the pace and he seemed unable to get started." -United Press

• Unofficial UP scorecard - 9-3-3 Greb
• Unofficial INS scorecard - 8-5-2 Greb

That's the difference between you and me. I don't get angry over bs on the internet that doesn't matter. None of this matters lmao. I don't think about you during my day, maybe you think about this forum but I forget about it until I open my browser and see it's in my history.

What do you mean Dempsey didn't give Greb a title shot? Dempsey was never in charge of who got a title shot to begin with. You're so emotional on the issue that your attributing things to Dempsey which never had anything to do with him. Dempsey openly stated that he'd take a fight with Greb if it was offered.

Greb? Are you kidding me? Out of all fighters of that era GREB is the one that would seal Dempsey's legacy? Lmao I actually chuckled reading that garbage. Greb weighed 160 lbs and would have been clobbered even faster than Brennan was had him and Dempsey shared the ring.

lol gay

 

But you consider spreading blatant lies about another man who has been dead for 40 years to tarnish his character to be appropriate?

That's funny.