Does Jack Johnson really belong in a heavyweight top 10?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mr. magoo, Mar 4, 2015.


  1. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Of course.

    Beat loads of top opposition, was champ a long time, was hugely admired in his own time, had good longevity, was extremely difficult to beat all that good stuff.

    It's impossible to list ten guys who are inarguably above him.

    On the other hand, if he's at eleven or thirteen that's not outrageous either.

    HW has the softest top ten of all IMO. Once you're out of the top two, you can do what you like with a bunch of other guys.
     
  3. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    His record as champion isn't that special, I don't blame all that on him I think the American Public have to shoulder a lot of the blame for his white hope fights. if there had been no demand for a white champion,there would not have been a supply and the White Hope Era would never have got off the ground.
    All time rankings are so subjective and personal,everyone's criteria is different, we probably attach far too much importance to it.

    It's a bit of fun best enjoyed over a pint of real ale imo.

    Here's an example;
    Joe Louis is not in my top 3 ! Heresy? Maybe, but I think Ali, Johnson, and Dempsey beat him.
    Does that mean they are necessarily greater champions than him? No.
     
  4. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Nah, I think your spell-checker just knows you had those things in your mouth willingly.
     
  5. LittleRed

    LittleRed Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    This whole post is disbelievable and ungood.
     
  6. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    You could make a strong case for him having the third best resume in heavyweight history.

    In terms of depth of resume, and number of wins against world class opposition, he is up with anybody.
     
  7. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    I feel he's outside, myself, and is overrated both for his social importance historically lending undue weight to his overall ATG ranking and in h2h terms more than others you might class "pioneers" (which he doubtless was, different and stylistically game-changing enough to be viewed as peerless in his own day but not exactly a timeless any-era world-beater, IMO) - but not too far outside, as he was a specimen even by modern athletic standards and was so dominant. He fits pretty snugly around the dozenth mark or so.
     
  8. HerolGee

    HerolGee Loyal Member banned Full Member

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    easily top ten, more pertinently top five.


    how far would someone like wlad get if the entire country hated him, if he cant get past getting destroyed in seconds by a fringe contending relic from the last era now in shot2shyte form corrie sanders?
    or if he didn't have a ref who didn't disqualify him and didn't get breaks for bad losses, instead gettinh hounded out for such a loss as the sanders one, or being DQ instantly for messing with the rules (povetkin). wlad thrives on being backed up whilst beating up weaklings, not being raged against whilst beating up the best like JJ.
     
  9. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    I don't think anybody is saying that Wlad is among those standing in his way. Or, if they are, he isn't the foremost example, certainly.

    Ali, Louis, Holmes, Lewis, & Marciano have to be ahead of him, IMO - so top 5 is out. Back end of 10 is a conversation that can be had. Personally, to me, he's a few spaces down from even there, but just misses out. (and you can probably find reasons to like his resume better than a couple of the guys above him in the back end of 10, or to say that he might thwart a couple of them head to head)
     
  10. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Time tends to swallow up a fighters resume.

    Jack Johnson first hit the world scene in 1902 with a win over George Gardiner. Between that and loosing the world title to Jess Willard in 1915, his only defeat was the controversial loss against Marvin Hart.
     
  11. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    On the back end of the top ten.
     
  12. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    No. In his time, Johnson was the best. But too many fighters have come after him, and they've pushed him out of the top 10.

    Jack Johnson was six foot tall.
    He weighed around 210.
    He had a 74-inch reach.
    He focused on defense first, when fans craved offense.
    He held his hands up with his gloves open to block punches.
    He liked to brag that he could beat any big man in the world.
    And he liked white women.

    If Jack Johnson came along 100 years later, he would've been ... CHRIS BYRD, who fits the same exact description.

    Time moves on.
     
  13. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    Yeah, but there's his own color line stuff floating around in that span, no? So it could've been even better and there were probably some holes/question marks, fair to say?
     
  14. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Your argument is more head-to-head and era related. That's fine. But if you're judging men purely - or mainly - on what they did in their own time and comparing it to what other men did in their time, none of it really applies.
     
  15. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Very fair to say.

    Even so, I think that his resume is better than that of Larry Holmes!