Does James Toney always lose to Roy Jones Jr?

Toney is thought of in some circles as this untouchable pure boxer, who could only be beaten by himself. This was not the reality, he had very slow feet and got hit a lot more than you remember. Roy is just too much for him at any point in time.

 

You don't stand in the pocket against peak Roy and hope to beat him by moving your shoulder.

 

not sure what you are trying to imply. Toney was a complete fighter thought. could fight on the inside or outside.

 

James Toney would have never beaten Roy Jones Jr., all the way up to the Roy version that beat Ruiz. Once he became beatable and started losing it, it's possible James could have gotten revenge at that point. I always hated that Toney constantly bitched that he was out of shape for that fight. It was his duty as a professional to be ready for a fight of that magnitude. I don't believe he was totally drained or he never would have made it the full 12 rounds. Roy just made him look that bad.

When James Toney got his arse whooped by Roy, he needed it. If you would have seen him back in the day, in the gym sparring with no hopers, and the way he acted and treated these guys, (as well as the people around him), you wouldn't pitty him too much. He thought he could say whatever he wanted to anyone.

 

I thought his vocabulary was limited to ‘what time does the donut shop close?’

 

You're lumping Ruiz in with Tarver in an effort to get leeway for Toney beating Jones at heavyweight. People have already explained to you they are not the same Jones. This is blatantly obvious.

Jones easily beats a top 6 heavyweight. He has looked impressive in fights prior.

Suddenly, when going all the way back to 175, basically 20 pounds less, Jones looks very unimpressive against Tarver despite winning. It's the sort of poor performance that is seldom ever associated with Jones.

In the rematch Jones is decimated, and isn't remotely the Jones he used to be ever again. The fall started in Tarver 1, not when he whooped a top 6 heavyweight. Again, this is blatantly obvious.

 

Who knows when it is started. Ruiz fought an awful fight against Roy. I am not impressed with Roy as a heavyweight, glass chin and reduced mobility.

 

Well i just gave plenty of evidence it started with Tarver after the weight drop. Jones beat a top 6 heavyweight comfortably, no matter what you thought of Ruiz's performance. These are the stone cold facts.

 

And I told you Ruiz fought an awful fight. Showed Roy way too much respect, did not really test him. Tarver and Johnson showed Roy no respect. You may disagree and that is fine.

However, Jones decline was due to his age and deteriorated reflexes/mobility. The weight played only a minor role. you know he was not drained or anything in the Tarver rematch. he was in top shape.

 

We'll disagree on pretty much everything you said.

 

Well I usually to disagree with you.

 

We'll definitely agree on that.

 

He wasn't. He doesn't have to be fast on his feet like a Roy or Nunn, but as good as James's hands and defence were, his lack of feet is glaringly obviously and would always be exploited by the likes of a Roy.

As good as the Nunn KO was, there's a serious difference between pirme Roy and prime Nunn and James would always need Roy to slow down in order to mount a serious, sustained offence.

Had James a better use of the jab and feet, he would've been able to adjust better. As has been said already, his lack of fork control isn't an excuse. It's professional prize fighting and not training/eating right for the biggest fight of your career speaks volumes of your professionalism and imo your ability.

In fact, I'm seriously starting to wonder whether James should be given as much faith in these hypotheticals - if we can't trust him to put his best foot forward in the biggest fight of his life, why does he get the benefit of the doubt with any random hypothetical?

 

I said this weeks ago. If he allegedly can't get in any sort of shape for the fight of his life, what fight can he? 99.99% of the time we say yeah, the best version of. We usually have plenty of examples to pick, especially in big fights. Toney's awfully unreliable tho, even when you'd most expect him to be on song. Your point is on song.

 

Could James beat Roy-He-Was?
He could not beat him, just because.

Could James beat him on a boat?
He could not beat Roy Jones the GOAT.

Could he beat him in a ring?
He could not beat him, Roy was king.

Could he beat him for a belt?
He could not, at Roy’s feet James knelt.

Could he beat him with a shoulder roll?
He could not beat him, James would fold.

Could he beat him, any way?
James could not beat him, any day.

Could James not beat Roy-He-Was?
He could not, give Jones applause.