Does Joe Louis stand the test of time?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Fergy, Apr 4, 2017.

  1. Cecil

    Cecil Boxing Addict Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2015
    Messages:
    5,102
    Likes Received:
    5,227
    I think Joe Louis largely used the footwork that was necessary at any particular time depending on the opponent that was in front of him.
    Here against the dangerous Max Baer which I always think was his best performance, his footwork is simply beautiful.
    At times he circles Baer at distance boxer style utilising the jab before moving in and unloading those devastating combinations, then he gets out.
    He obviously had the utmost respect for Baer's power.
    He's extremely light on his feet in this fight and his control of the distance is masterful.
    He's certainly no plodder.

    This content is protected
     
    Fergy likes this.
  2. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2015
    Messages:
    9,343
    Likes Received:
    1,536
    Calling Louis a plodder is utter nonsense. Joe could fight many styles in actuality. Against Baer and Galento a side stepping counterpuncher. Against Ramage a bobbing and weaving swarmer. Against Pastor a stalking counterpuncher constantly avoiding his opponents jab via neat parries.

    Louis was the most highly skilled hwt champion who ever lived...and it's not close.
     
  3. joe brown

    joe brown Keep it Simple Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2017
    Messages:
    327
    Likes Received:
    289
    agreed
     
  4. Fergy

    Fergy Walking Dead Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2017
    Messages:
    29,748
    Likes Received:
    36,435
    If Joe had just been a mere plodder he certainly wouldn't have been in the record books for most heavy weight title defence s. He defended the belt 25 times. If he was so bad and a mere slow plodder he would have been lucky to hold the title a year.
     
  5. KuRuPT

    KuRuPT Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2011
    Messages:
    8,462
    Likes Received:
    2,814

    If you had to cite Joe Louis biggest weakness, it would be his lack of movement or where he carried his right hand, but more movement. This is the EXACT reason people with movement gave him issues, well, because he wasn't the best mover. True or False?
     
  6. KuRuPT

    KuRuPT Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2011
    Messages:
    8,462
    Likes Received:
    2,814
    The example you asked for are readily available on film. Look at schemling 1, Joe isn't using angles and movement to come forward, he's coming straight forward almost all the time. He's using barely any head movement when doing so besides the occasional leaning down and to the side. Your inability to see that he's not using angles when coming in or following is opponent should be readily apparent, but somehow you missed it. Look at his fights with Walcott, Conn, Godoy and Charles. Movement and angles bothered him and it showed. He didn't use angles coming in, he didn't use movement. He almost always came straight forward and stalked his foe. Nobody is saying he's the biggest and worst plodder of all time, or even the definition of a plodder. But what is without question is, he had aspects of plodding, and one of his biggest weakness was his lack of movement and adjusting to his foes movement. To say otherwise is completely hilarious. LOOK AT THE DAMN FIGHTS. He's not bouncing around coming in using angles and bobbing and weaving. He does nothing of the sort.
     
  7. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2013
    Messages:
    10,974
    Likes Received:
    5,433
    Louis remains the most technically proficient hw ive ever seen.
     
  8. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Messages:
    55,255
    Likes Received:
    10,354

    Right. Even some of his own team, such as the matchmaker at Madison Square Garden for Louis said he was slow footed. They didn't call him the shuffler without a reason.

    My take is Louis stands the test of time as an American Hero! His KO over Schmeling and giving up his career to join the army were special, as was his stance on social justice. And he has some great filmed knockouts.

    As a heavyweight champion, he reigned in a weak time and was often behind on scorecards vs the best boxers he faced, most of whom would be light heavyweights or cruiserweights today.

    He has flaws on defense in both his lower guard and stick your face forward type of stance. This combined with slower feet, a just above average type of chin, and smaller size ( by the standards of 2017 ) means he's hardly superman, but I would not say he's out of the money vs anyone.
     
  9. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2006
    Messages:
    71,602
    Likes Received:
    27,273
    False.

    He could move when he needed to move, and he generally didn't.
     
  10. crixus85

    crixus85 Well-Known Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2014
    Messages:
    1,687
    Likes Received:
    1,472
    I bet all of the boxers he destroyed with those fabulous combinations would have preferred that he was a plodder !
    Just imagine what his number of title defenses would have amounted to, had WW 2 not interrupted his flow. Any offers of a probable total ?
     
  11. KuRuPT

    KuRuPT Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2011
    Messages:
    8,462
    Likes Received:
    2,814
    No argument there, but movement wasn't one of his strong points correct?
     
  12. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2005
    Messages:
    61,831
    Likes Received:
    46,559
    He cleaned out two eras and was working on a third era when the wheels fell off. Heavyweight has always been a thin division, even in the vaunted 70's and 90's. He just happened to control it for a great portion of its existence.
     
    ribtickler68, reznick and Fergy like this.
  13. escudo

    escudo Boxing Addict Full Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2014
    Messages:
    4,298
    Likes Received:
    4,629
    He is small But his skill is timeless. He knocked out far bigger men before but generally speaking the bigger guy with the longer reach has the advantage. His skills would outweigh most of those advantages. But if he were to meet an equally skilled and athletically gifted big guy he's in for a rough night.
     
  14. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2015
    Messages:
    9,343
    Likes Received:
    1,536
    Problem is no one NO ONE comes close in terms of the skill Louis brought to the table. Just awesome timing, boxing ability, compact punching, pinpoint accuracy and one punch ko power.
     
    Seamus likes this.
  15. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2015
    Messages:
    9,343
    Likes Received:
    1,536
    If you can find the version of the Louis Baer fight that shows the fighters introductions old Joe Humphreys in his intro of Louis included the words...."although colored....". This prompted another younger announcer to make a brief statement afterwards in effect let the best man win regardless of race........or something that effect.