Does Langford-Hague exist on film?

Done.

I'm pretty excited. Great week for me- turning 21 years old, 5 days of free time, and now an opportunity to take a look at some films that havent been compressed and marginalized by youtube.... Thanks again, klompton.

 

This thread has gone way off on a tangent.

But still no sign of proof regarding Langford-Hague ...... so it looks like advantage Klompton! :bbb

 

The difference is if I were a woman Id be giving it out like candy LOL!

 

K, for such a flame thrower you should be more on top of your facts ...

You are incorrect. I gave you a copy for free, neither asking or receiving anything in return. You may have offered a copy of the famous Greb book when it came out but to this date I have not received it ... I also gave out free completed copies of the film to at least a dozen other regulars from the CBZ back then.

In addition, any attorney or producer will tell you how off your analogy is ... one is a venture in which I had partners, liability, limits to rights and and had invested over six figures ... the other is passing along a fight film gathering dust in a basement , far more similar to passing out doubles of baseball cards ...

 

Perhaps you should hear the details before having to take your foot out of your mouth ...

 

I had/have partners, we have a significant investment in these ventures, and there are liability risks to simply giving things away in such cases. You can minimize it all you want but there is really no difference.

But, since you dont mind, dont care, and didnt ask me not to, can I assume its ok to post your documentary on Youtube, bittorent sites, emule, etc? I mean, after all, it was given to me free and clear with nothing asked of me right (I believe I still have the letter you sent enclosed with the tape, in its original sleave etc, asking me specifically not to give it out)?

 

Since you changed your quote I will respond to this version as well:

As I recall, in return for a copy of that film you wanted a copy of the photograph I found of John L. Sullivan vs. McCaffrey. Ring a bell? In addition to that I think asking me NOT to trade or sell the film (which is the point to begin with) is asking something in return.

Now, you can say that a legal agreemant is more binding than a verbal agreemant but thats just splitting hairs. I dont know how it is where you come from but when someone I work with asks me not give something of theirs away I consider it as binding as a piece of paper and a point of honor and respect to abide by that. Maybe you dont but dont **** all over me for having a higher standard than you do.

Furthermore, in my case there are liabilities, both legal and otherwise: One liability is the possibility that I could lose my contacts within the community for getting other films. That may not effect you but it effects me and as stated above Im not going to cut off my nose to spite my face just because you or anyone else thinks I should work my ass off acquiring these things and then blow it all by giving out the first one I get for nothing.

The second liability is far more serious and that is the fact that in some cases these films and their rights are not owned by me. They are owned by archives, promoters, etc who definately do have legal ramifications to bring to bare if I were to start publishing this stuff myself just as you would if I were to give away your film for free, no?

Here is another example that I find perfectly shitty. Pat Docusen who is Bernard Docusen's daughter had the film of her father fighting Robinson. She was trying to market that film alongside a book her father wrote of his life. The intention of the procedes was to go to Bernard before he passed away. These were films shot by and owned by the family. A pretty worth cause eh, going to the benefit of an old fighter who was featured in the films? Guess what happened the instant she started selling those? Someone posted it online for download. Now I wonder how many people have a copy of that fight and how many of those people paid for it and how much of that minority's money went to Bernard. Those same people who ***** and complain about hoarding, and doing whats right for the sport, and honoring these fighters are the same ones who basically cut an old man out of what amounted to his last payday for one of his finest hours. In reality they didnt give a **** about honoring the sport, the fighters, or any of this other high minded gargon you guys spout.

Like I said, whenever you are ready go ahead and tell me and I'll start posting your documentary all over creation. Until that day dont tell me about lawyers, liability, agreements, and how much money you invested in that project because you are preaching to the choir and dont even realise it.

 

HE,

You don't need to digitize anything. All you need is a reel to reel projector a screen, the right lighting, and quality HD camera to record the action. Then you can pretty much see old flims, and preserve them for cheap.

I also recommend taking photographs from sill shots from the old reel to reel films. Some of them will produce unbeliever never before seen action photos. I have a few of them myself, and have posted them here before.

As for sharing rare flims, that is up to the owner. And some of them have special trade deals not to share.

 

I gave a full description of the action of Langford vs. Jeanette. Its in the archives here. I also have 26 minutes worth of blow by blow detail on Corbett vs. Fitzsimmons in the archives here.

 

I didn`t want to get dragged into this, but seeing how this thread has been brought to my attention I feel I should chime in. For starters Clay Moyle never told me the name of who was in possession of the Langford footage, and to be honest it is only by reading through this thread that I now know that Steve is one of the owners of the fight. Now I did contact Clay to see if he could be used as an intermediary for me to get a hold of that footage and that went nowhere, and so I dropped the matter.

Whatever emails Klompton may still have in his possession that I sent to him will undoubtebly show that I have not contacted him in at least a year, probably two by now, only a pm I remember sending about a year age which went unanswered and since silence speaks volumes I did not bother contacting him again nor do I intend to.

He has his rare films and I have mine, and thats all there is to it as far as I`m concerned. And just to be very clear on something whatever footage I have released to be viewed online thru youtube I have paid for myself with my own money and since there is no pryor agreement for me not to show any of these films I am free to do as I please and will continue to do so.

Now fights I have obtained thru trades by swapping rare footage for something of equally rare value and with the understanding between both parties that the footage being exchanged is for our eyes only and not to be shared with anyone, those films I have not released and will not do so under any circumstance as I am bound by my word and I don`t take that lightly.

Nothing else to add really, except to say that when you invest thousands of dollars of your own time and money, oftentimes when you can`t even really afford it but you do so anyway, you don`t really feel like sharing what you`ve worked so hard to obtain for free, at least I don`t and I can`t see to many other folks doing so either. Its easy to say you would do so, but its a different story after you`ve gone thru all the trouble and headaches to get the damn films.

 

Thats fine if Clay didnt tell you anything personally but look at it from my perspective. I ask a guy to keep something under his hat and then he starts talking about it. Within days I get an email from you asking me, of all of the people out there if I have it, and referencing Clay telling you he had seen it and that it was in the hands of a private collector. Even if he didnt tell you anything (which is still a pretty big gap to jump from some nameless, faceless private collector to me of all people) you cant blame me from making the jump from point A to point B. Which in itself is irrelevent because the whole point was that it be kept quiet to begin with. Which it wasnt, and this was long before Clay met a third party who found it online and told him where to view it when he suddenly decided it was ok to do whatever he wanted. So like Ive stated above. We tried to do a favor for a guy and I cant help but feel like even back then he stabbed us in the back. He handled the situation pretty poorly, and at the time even admitted that he lost his temper over the matter because he had not been included. People can call me meiser or a hoarder or whatever but I cant help but think anyone in my situation would have been equally pissed off.

 

This has to be one of the more interesting threads on this board lately.

I have a general question for klompton :

Does the fact that rare films can be disseminated more readily due to current technology (DVD as opposed to tape or reel, Youtube, internet downloads, etc) make you balk at spending thousands on rare footage knowing that it will most likely surface in a few years or months time? The Langford-Jeanette film being a case in point.

I've paid hundreds for certain films only to see them pop up on regular trading lists, or worse youtube, a few months later, practically negating the expense I forked out, despite me honoring my word and never trading them out.

Also, hypothetically, if someone came to you with, say, Greb-Tunney footage and offered to trade it for rare films and gave you their word that they would never trade or sell what you sent them on condition that you do the same would you be tempted to trade out other films that you had declared "never for sale or trade"?

I guess my point is every man has his price. In my experience (particularly amongst boxing collectors) men whose word is their bond are a very rare breed. In all my dealings I have only ever come across one.

 

True. I believe you told me that outright about Lynch-Kane (full fight)

 

"Does the fact that rare films can be disseminated more readily due to current technology (DVD as opposed to tape or reel, Youtube, internet downloads, etc) make you balk at spending thousands on rare footage knowing that it will most likely surface in a few years or months time? The Langford-Jeanette film being a case in point. "

No not really. The possibility of something getting out is always there but if I want something now Im willing to pay for it and pay well. Remember, this is more about me getting to see these fighters rather than wanting something that is of great value to others. One is just an ends to means of the other, i.e. keeping and protecting the rareness/value of a film is more about its ability to grow my collection, not about keeping it from other people or hoarding it. So no, I dont think that really factors into the equation when Im considering purchasing something. After all you cant predict when, if ever, something will become readily available and If I find something good Im not willing to wait in order to watch it.


"Also, hypothetically, if someone came to you with, say, Greb-Tunney footage and offered to trade it for rare films and gave you their word that they would never trade or sell what you sent them on condition that you do the same would you be tempted to trade out other films that you had declared "never for sale or trade"? "

No, I like to think my collection is solid enough now that I dont need to trade what I have relied on others for. I have found enough on my own merits, alone, that I think I have plenty of gems worth a good trade and if need be I could hopefully suplement such a trade with cash. If I started going back on my word and giving things out that I had expressly promised not give out I would lose my friends who I rely on and thats not going to happen. I expect no less from them. Hopefully they take comfort in my discretion and treat me the same way.

 

"Thats fine if Clay didnt tell you anything personally but look at it from my perspective. I ask a guy to keep something under his hat and then he starts talking about it. (AGAIN, WE DISAGREE ON THIS POINT. YOU CAN SAY WHATEVER YOU WANT AT THIS POINT ABOUT HOW EVERYONE KNOWS YOU WOULDN'T HAVE ALLOWED ME TO SEE IT WITHOUT HAVING THAT CONVERSATION, BUT I'M TELLING YOU I HAVE NO RECOLLECTION WHATSOEVER OF ANY SUCH CONVERSATION. NOW THAT I THINK ABOUT IT I WOULD THINK YOU'D HAVE WANTED WORD OF THE EXISTANCE OF THE FILM TO GET OUT SO IT MIGHT INCREASE YOUR CHANCES OF SOMEONE COMING FORWARD WITH SOME EQUALLY RARE FILM THAT YOU COULD HAVE TRADED IT FOR BACK THEN. IT OBVIOUSLY PROMPTED RAGING BULL TO ATTEMPT TO FIND SOMETHING HE HAD THAT WOULD BE OF INTEREST IN TRADE, BUT THAT DIDN'T PAN OUT. I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW KEEPING IT'S EXISTANCE A SECRET WOULD HAVE HELPED YOU ACCOMPLISH THE HOPED FOR TRADE, BUT AGAIN I'M NOT A FILM GUY, AND AM UNFAMILIAR WITH THE NAUANCES OF THE UNDERGROUND FILM TRADING PROCESS. PLEASE DON'T FEEL THE NEED TO EXPLAIN
IT TO ME HERE, I'M NOT THAT INTERESTED AT THIS POINT.) Within days I get an email from you asking me, of all of the people out there if I have it, and referencing Clay telling you he had seen it and that it was in the hands of a private collector. (WHATEVER, HE DIDN'T GET YOUR NAME, OR ANYONE ELSE'S FROM ME. IF I'D GIVEN HIM YOUR NAMES I WOULDN'T HAVE BOTHERED WASTING MY TIME ACTING AS AN INTERMEDIARY FORWARDING HIS EMAILS TO YOUR PARTNER, AND THE RESPONSES BACK TO HIM.)Even if he didnt tell you anything (which is still a pretty big gap to jump from some nameless, faceless private collector to me of all people) you cant blame me from making the jump from point A to point B. Which in itself is irrelevent because the whole point was that it be kept quiet to begin with. (AGAIN WE DISAGREE ON THIS POINT.) Which it wasnt, and this was long before Clay met a third party who found it online and told him where to view it when he suddenly decided it was ok to do whatever he wanted. (THAT'S TRUE, ONCE I BECAME AWARE THAT THE FILM WAS ON THAT GAUMONT (SP?) WEBSITE I DECIDED THAT ALL BETS WERE OFF AND IT WAS ONLY A MATTER OF TIME BEFORE IT BECAME KNOWN TO OTHERS WHETHER I REVEALED THE FILMS EXISTENCE ON THAT WEBSITE OR SOMEONE ELSE DID.) So like Ive stated above. We tried to do a favor for a guy and I cant help but feel like even back then he stabbed us in the back. He handled the situation pretty poorly, and at the time even admitted that he lost his temper over the matter because he had not been included. (MY EARLIER RESPONSE WAS POORLY WORDED, I DID SAY IT PISSED ME OFF AT THE TIME APPROXIMATELY FOUR YEARS AGO WHEN I DIDN'T GET AN OPPORTUNITY TO BE INCLUDED. IT WOULD HAVE BEEN MORE ACCURATE FOR ME TO SAY THAT I WAS DISAPPOINTED, OR ANNOYED AT THE TIME. I READILY ADMIT I TRIED IN
VAIN TO TRADE FOR A COPY FOR THE NEXT FEW YEARS.) People can call me meiser or a hoarder or whatever but I cant help but think anyone in my situation would have been equally pissed off. "

What bothers me most about this whole issue is that I tried to contact you on more than one occasion after it became clear you were upset about my revealing the information concerning the films existance on that website and you chose to ignore my PM's. Instead, you've submitted a number of posts like the one earlier in this thread.
Whatever kind of relationship we may have had at one point is obviously way beyond repair at this point, and that suits me fine.

If you spent as much time working on your book as you waste on these forums it would have been done long ago.