Does Larry Holmes deserve the bad rap for pummeling Muhammad Ali?

Ali stepped into the ring. He knew what he was getting into.

 

The thing is both holmes and lewis have a nasty habit of being arrseholeyy in interviews...both have mellowed and had PR training but the slight arrogance as athletes which also drove them to be dedicated disciplined long running world champions who kept their fortunes out of the ring is still there ....larrys jockstrap rant and constant refrain that he was beating ali in sparring by 1975...and he beat ali still at his peak but was "merciful" as he was just so much better is regrettable

Lewis was viewed as arrogant and conceited by some brits through the 1990s...the occasionally classless comment showed....calling frank bruno a "uncle tom"....mocking oliver mccalls mental illness.....constantly insisting he didnt fight a shot tyson...

Both have mellowed with age and are good guys overall.holmes is a little loud and seemed to be copying foremans good ole boy act during his return in 1991-1992 but what a fighter...i can totally get anyone having him in their top 5 all time...

But no one can tell me holmes pulled punches vs ali...holmes was doing a job..and tge blame goes on Ali's corner and don king

 

Truly unlikeable guys. Excellent post.

I don't buy beating Ali in sparring nonsense. Ali often used his sparring sessions to practice absorbing punches. The idea that Holmes could have beaten Ali in 1975 in an actual boxing match up is far fetched. Maybe he could give Muhammad a good fight in 75 but not beat him.

In contrast, Foreman is a lot more likeable despite ocassionally staying stupid things. Holyfield and Tyson too i enjoy being interviewed.

 

It is complete Bu||$!+ when people attack Holmes for beating Ali.

If Holmes didn't fight Ali he would have "ducked" him....If Holmes would have taken it easy on Ali it would be "he could barely beat an old man" ....If Holmes had let Ali go the distance it would be "he could barely beat an old man"

As it was, Holmes did somewhat take it easy on Ali, he could have beaten him even worse if he wanted to.

No wonder Holmes was frustrated over the whole thing, I'd be pissed too. It was a no win scenario for him.

 

What exactly does he have to be humble about? If worked as hard as Larry and ended up as wildly successful I wouldn't be humble either. At a certain point you have earned the right to your arrogance.

 

Always sad when a champion stays around too long but Larry Holmes was only doing his job against Muhammad Ali. Same as Ali,himself,was versus Cleveland Williams. Boxing history is littered with such sad spectacles as those mentioned plus -

Marciano-Louis
Willard-Johnson
Norris-Leonard

And scores of others.

 

Holmes didn’t hold back at all until the last round or two when it was clear that Ali wasn’t going to go down so he took it down a notch. Up to then he was hitting with full power and spite to head and body even though Ali couldn’t hit back and just covered up most the time. I don’t blame Holmes at all especially since Ali had always belittle him at least in public when Holmes became champ and even in the fight build up still referred to Holmes as just a sparring partner. Maybe in his head Ali really still thought of Holmes as just his sparring partner which is why he foolishly took the fight but I’ve no doubt that for Holmes this was payback time though I would be surprised if he ever admitted it in public.

 

Ali was still rated as a God by many boxing fans, and was talking a lot of **** before and during the fight
Holmes was a professional champion. He did exactly what any professional champion would do.

 

Clay spent his entire career belittling and disparaging his opponents. it's so funny to me how we hate on guys like Adrien Broner and Floyd because of their arrogance and the way they talk to others, but for some reason it was cute and funny when Clay acted the same way.
Clay also capitalized on and promoted racial divisions, and turned his back on his country in a time of need.

considering all that, I'd say Holmes was just Clay's Karma

 

I don't think anyone hates Holmes because he did what he signed on the dotted line to do against Ali; face his opponent and do his best. If anything, the fact that he was pulling his punches late in the fight, and practically begging the referee to stop it should invoke some admiration for the man for showing compassion for his fellow man in a mean business. This is the first I've heard of anyone hating him for beating Ali.

There are many who wax poetic about "never forgiving" Holmes for beating their guy, but that's more misplaced misty-eyed hero worship than anything. I don't think that speaks to any actual hatred per se.

 

oh yea, the famous jock strap comment. If Ali said that, his fans would still be repeating it to this day as fact! Also, everything that negro just posted above me!

 

I've seen Larry kind of hold back or ave the ref in in a few of his fights actually. He's a guy with a good heart. Never called his opponents stupid names either, except cooney, looney cooney, and he actually did that in a kidding good natured way

 

No. He doesn't deserve a bad rap. The blame goes on his trainer of 20 years Angelo Dundee, his manager Herbert Muhammad, and the Nevada State Athletic Commission officials and Muhammad Ali himself ... none of whom took the blame.

If Ali wasn't able to perform, it was up to them to stop the fight before it began. That was their jobs. As it was Ali's job to properly prepare for the fight.

And, after it began, it was on Dundee and the Athletic Commission and their officials (the referee, the doctor) to stop the fight.

Had Ali fought John Tate instead, as was the initial plan, or Mike Weaver, which was also discussed (and both of those fights would've been promoted by Bob Arum) ... and Ali entered in the same condition and was unable to perform ... the blame would've still been on Dundee, Herbert Muhammad and the Athletic Commission officials that allowed it to go on and on Ali, himself.

Not on Tate or Weaver.

 

Correct me if Im wrong as I havent seen the fight in decades, but didnt Larry ask the ref to stop the fight on more than one occasion? I seem to have a memory of that.

 

Ali wanted the fight and he got it. Holmes actually showed mercy on the man and asked the ref to stop it more than once just like he did against Frazier Shavers ect.
The men to blame are actually Ali for talking his way into this fight I mean honestly did he really think he could beat a prime Holmes when Holmes was already getting the best of him back when he was in his camp. The other culprit is Dundee. Dundee put on that big display about being the chief second and stopping the fight. What a crock of #### he should have stopped it by the 5th instead he watched his man take a bad bad beating. Through Richard Green into the mix for not stopping it too. No fault goes to Holmes in this fight. If anything commend him for asking the ref to stop it.