Does Lennox Lewis not fighting Bowe the second best HW from his era ruin his legacy?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Ryan O'Reilly, Dec 14, 2011.


  1. Foxy 01

    Foxy 01 Boxing Junkie banned

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    Oh please, DON'T.:lol::lol::lol:
     
  2. bivins

    bivins Guest

    This is not true.

    Lewis/Byrd was scheduled to take place in December 2002. Lewis agreed to this stipulation in court to secure the Tyson fight. In September he broke from this agreement and gave the official reason that "Byrd offered no challenge" Opting to sit in inactivity for 11 months before agreeing to face Kirk Johnson...who ultimately became Vitali Klitschko by circumstance on short notice.

    To excuse this duck is to say that Champions have the right to pick their own contenders and can decide who is "a challenge" and who is not. That a mandatory who was regarded as a top contender for a decade by the vast majority of organizations and publications; and earned his shot by beating another contender who was good enough to challenge for the title less than a year previously is not worthy just because the Champion says so. :think

    If Wlad trashed his IBF title and said Fury was no challenge, but had no other opponents lined up for 11 months and watched Fury win his vacated title at ringside, I wander what these people would say?
     
  3. bivins

    bivins Guest

    It's not like Lewis just didn't have the time to face these guys. In the case of Byrd, he said he would not fight him and chose to sit out an HBO date rather than meet him in the ring.

    In the case of Ruiz, he agreed to face the WBA #1 contender when it was Akinwande but decided Grant took priority when Ruiz replaced him, despite having been granted a 12 month window to make the fight with Grant.

    I'd take Ruiz over Botha and Rahman(Ruiz actually beat him).
     
  4. bivins

    bivins Guest

    I heard he prepared by watching Lewis/Holyfield I and Lewis/Tua. Wlad even stole Lewis signature move of holding and hitting.

    Lewis was criticized just as heavily in his time for clinching smaller men to death. When it comes to clinching criticism, Lewis and Wlad live in the same glasshouse.
     
  5. Brighton bomber

    Brighton bomber Loyal Member Full Member

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    You've misunderstood what I was saying. All i said was if he fought Byrd in June 2002 it would have meant he would have not fought Tyson then because he couldn't fight them both on the same day. Which is why I mentioned that a fight was possible later in 2002.

    But Lewis decided to face his Johnson instead of Byrd which was then a more lucrative fight as while Byrd is now seen as a top contender back then he was seen an undersized heavy, nobody wanted to watch fight.

    Yes you are right in that a champion should have to face his mandatory but boxing is a business and Lewis would have had trouble selling the fight to HBO for the kind of purse he wanted and in terms of overall legacy the eventual win he got against Vitali does far more for his legacy than any win over Byrd could ever do.
     
  6. bivins

    bivins Guest

    -Nobody is suggesting to sub Tyson for Byrd. What is being suggested is that Lewis should have fought Byrd when the was fight was supposed to happen in December 2002 on HBO, instead of trashing his title and disrespecting a deserving contender.

    -No, he didn't. He chose to watch Byrd/Holyfield for the title he fragmented at ringside over facing Byrd himself. The Johnson fight didn't come together until Spring of the following year.

    HBO set a date aside for Lewis/Byrd which eventually went to Byrd/Holyfield. Early estimates predicted Lewis could earn up to 10 million for the Byrd fight, more than the 7 million that was reported for say..Rahman I.

    And lets not try to sell Johnson as a bigger draw or a more featured HBO fighter. Byrd was a top contender at the time and had been featured on HBO regularly.

    Johnson had been off HBO since the Ruiz mess, the Saverese fight was on FoxSports. There was little interest in Johnson/Lewis.

    "But that doesn't mean the card at the Staples Center in Los Angeles is off, despite very slow ticket sales." ESPN

    And if we are take Lewis at his word, a big pay day wasn't an issue. And likely wasn't as its doubtful Johnson matched the 10 million for a mandatory IBF defense with an American HBO regular.

    Promoters have not disclosed the size of the purse for the fight and Lewis showed little interest when questioned about his potential earnings.
    "I don't really think about money anymore," Lewis said-ABC

    -Just because a replacement opponent later turned out to have a great career, doesn't mean Lewis is justified in ruling out the possibility of ever facing a deserving contender the previous summer. Holmes still gets called out for ducking Page, despite his hand picks gone wrong like Spoon having better careers.

    A deserving contender with a reputation for being avoided in line for an earned title shot was denied because of the personal opinion of the Champion. If this is not a duck, what is a duck?

    If you don't feel there was no criticism for Lewis, read the American Press in the lead up and aftermath of Byrd/Holyfield. There was also an ESPN poll that selected Byrd was the man people would most like to see Lewis face next.
     
  7. bivins

    bivins Guest

    This is following Byrd/Holyfield. March 2003. A month before Lewis announced Johnson as his man.

    The first question asked who Roy Jones should fight next. There were five choices: Lennox Lewis, Mike Tyson, Chris Byrd, Wladimir Klitschko and David Tua (or maybe it was Evander Holyfield and not Tua). Anyway, I was sure Mike Tyson would be the runaway choice. It was a close contest, but Byrd edged out Tyson. That's right, of the roughly 30,000 respondents, more selected Byrd as Roy Jones' next opponent than any other fighter in the world, including Mike Tyson.
    The second question asked who Lennox Lewis should fight next. Again, five choices: Chris Byrd, Mike Tyson, Roy Jones, David Tua and Evander Holyfield (I am sure of these choices, because they are still posted on the site as I write this). Again it was a close contest between Byrd and Tyson. Again, Byrd edged Tyson out.
     
  8. bivins

    bivins Guest

    So people on these forums can laugh and mock the idea of Lewis ducking Byrd. And people can try to twist Lewis' disrespectful words as some sort of truth. Even though Byrd already had a reputation for being a much avoided slippery southpaw and was well liked by HBO and the press. The actual facts, comments, and paper trail tells a different story.

    ATLANTIC CITY, N.J. -- A lot of heavyweights want nothing to do with Chris Byrd and his unorthodox interpretation of the sweet science.
    Evander Holyfield was one of them, until the prospect of an unprecedented fifth heavyweight title was dangled in front of his aging eyes.
    Holyfield goes after that title Saturday night against Byrd, a crafty lefty who might be the worst opponent outside of Wladimir Klitschko for an old warrior whose reflexes are slipping.
    The two meet in the Boardwalk Hall in a scheduled 12-round fight for the IBF version of the title that Lennox Lewis thought so little of he sold it for $1 million and a Range Rover.




    ATLANTIC CITY — There is a common misconception that the fighters other fighters most fear and avoid are big punchers, guys who can put you down and out with a single punch.
    The actual profile of the sort of fighter most likely to be ducked whenever possible is something entirely different. He'd be lefthanded, cuter than Shirley Temple in those 1930s musicals, peskier than a swarm of mosquitoes at a picnic. He'd be someone who wouldn't only beat you, but make you look foolish in the bargain.


    Someone, in other words, exactly like rising heavyweight contender Chris Byrd.

    In the other featured bout, big - 6-7, 250 pounds - and big-punching Michael Grant (27-0, 19 KOs) defends his lightly regarded International Boxing Council title against Obed Sullivan (29-2-1, 20 KOs) in a scheduled 12-rounder.
    Because of his power and unusual physical dimensions, Grant is widely perceived as the best of the next generation of heavyweights, but it speaks volumes about Byrd that, in a recent issue of KO magazine, a panel of four experts picked him to defeat Grant should the two ever meet.
     
  9. Vanboxingfan

    Vanboxingfan Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    My understanding of this is vastly different. From what I recall Lewis was the promoter of this fight (Lion Promotions) and he stood to loose a lot of money if the card fell through this was one reason he took the Vitali fight on such short notice and one reason he wasn't in the shape he should have been in.

    I've just googled and confirmed that he was indeed co-promoter of the fight along with Gary Shaw Productions and Prize Fight Promotions.
     
  10. Vanboxingfan

    Vanboxingfan Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Here are Lewis's words on this topic

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  11. C.J.

    C.J. Boxings Living Legend revered & respected by all Full Member

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    Look what Ike Ibeabuchi did to Byrd If He'd faced Lennox he'd have been demolished & everyone would say Lennox was a cherry picker ROFL And as for Ruiz ?? Thatd be worse
     
  12. Foxy 01

    Foxy 01 Boxing Junkie banned

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    Byrd a top contender for a decade? He lost to Ike in 99, won A title from Vitali in April 2000, then lost it 6 months later. Then he fights 2 nothing fights before beating Tua, who Lewis already beat handily 9 months earlier.

    Sure it was a final eliminator, but mean time Lewis has lost and regained with Rahman ( another King fighter ) who he had to sue to get his rematch clause invoked.

    So he looks for the money with Tyson in June, and says Byrd ( yet another King fighter ) in December 2002.

    As you say Lewis vacated his IBF title on September 5th 2002, but that was because he wanted a rematch with Tyson, as did Tyson himself, because both knew the money involved would surpass anything Byrd, Holyfield, both Klitchko's put together if you like, could possibly generate.

    Lewis / Tyson was for 5 years, until FMJ / DLH, the biggest grossing fight ever, generating over $ 105 million, with nearly 2 million PPV buys. Who wouldn't have dumped a Byrd fight for that kind of money?

    Enter fvcking King again who did everything in his power to stop a rematch from happening, ending up in Lewis suing him, and agreeing to fight Johnson in June 2003, and Klitchko in December of that year.

    Anyone in fact but a King fighter.

    That is the way it went down, you can think what you like about Lewis, but only a fool would think he was bothered about fighting Byrd, he was just playing hard ball with that lowlife King, and by extension his fighters.
     
  13. Vanboxingfan

    Vanboxingfan Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I gotta believe most of these guys were kids when these fights were happening cause it was pretty obvious that nobody was clamoring for a Byrd - Lewis fight, that was for damn sure.
     
  14. Brighton bomber

    Brighton bomber Loyal Member Full Member

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    I wasn't suggesting Byrd in place of Tyson either if you had read my earlier posts you may have gotten the proper context of my statement which you have not understood. All I said was with hindsight Tyson was too lucrative a fight not to take place and that a Vitali win on Lewis' resume is better than Byrd.

    Lewis/Byrd was never set to take place to my knowledge. Lewis made it clear the fight didn't interest him, he didn't want it and neither did the fans prior to Byrd beating Holyfield as Byrd was seen as an under sized and under powered heavy who didn't stand a chance. I doubt a Lewis/Byrd fight was ever even negotiated which makes a date being set for them unlikely.

    Even King didn't want it which is why he paid Lewis $1 million to dump his title. Why would King pay Lewis to dump his title, either he waits for Lewis to be stripped hoping the IBF doesn't give Lewis an extension or take Lewis to court to force a fight which he had done before with Ruiz and the WBA title. Why pay him unless he simply wanted the title and didn't want a Lewis/Byrd fight.

    See the link below. The Dec 7th date in 2002 was set aside by HBO for Lewis to fight Vitali not Byrd. King clearly always wanted Byrd to face Holyfield in Dec 7th not Lewis. Lewis was meant to fight Vitali.

    http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/boxing/2002-09-05-lewis-ibf-belt_x.htm

    I'm aware Lewis was at Byrd/Holyfield where he stated he would be willing to fight the winner of Byrd against the winner of Jones Jr/Ruiz fight which was meant to have also been on the same card. The fact is King paid Lewis $1 million to dump his title so King could arrange a mini tournament and hopefully pit the winner of Byrd/Holyfield against the winner of Jones Jr/Ruiz. So even if Lewis did want to fight Byrd after Byrd has beaten Evander he would have to wait for the Ruiz/Jones Jr result in March 2003. Was Lewis expected to wait on the side lines until late 2003 for this mini tournament to be finished and then fight Byrd or Jones Jr or should he just continued with his career and fight Johnson?

    Now to clarify what I was saying. I never said it was impossible to face Byrd. Which is why I said Lewis could have fought Byrd in place of Vitali. What I said is that in hindsight Vitali was a far better win with Vitali proving himself later on.

    You could call what Lewis did a duck but it wouldn't take into account that even Byrd's promoter King didn't want the fight. King wanted to free up a title for his mini tournament and while Lewis could have still fought Byrd, when an opponents promoters gives you a million to dump your belt instead of have to take a fight you don't even want and then allow you to possibly fight a more lucrative opponent, what would you do? Lewis was presented with a win, win situation and took it. If you want to call that a duck then go ahead.
     
  15. C.J.

    C.J. Boxings Living Legend revered & respected by all Full Member

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    LOL I think I know who you are & you just don't like Lennox Lewis The best since Ali:good