Does Lewis get to little or to much credit for beating Holyfield and Tyson

I know but after 10 rounds of battle, the best heavy fight of the decade, he may have succumbed to a lot less anyway. Still, Evander's energy at that stage was quite something. :good

No doubt Evander's workrate back then was superior, but Evander's penchant for slugging it out- and neglecting defence wouldn't have been wise against Lewis in 1992, just like it wasn't against Bowe.

 

Dinner with Conteh,

I and some others scored the first Riddick Bowe- Evander Holyfield fight from a round to round basis as follows:

Holyfield- rounds 1, 5, 6, 8, 12 - Total= 5

Bowe- rounds 2, 3, 4, 7, 9, 10, 11- Total= 7

Some had it a bit different, but most had a very similar scoring. In my opinion, 7 rounds to 5 is not by any means a domination. Don't you think that a Holyfield of two years earlier, could have done just enough to close the gap and take the decision by a similar score of 7-5 ?

 

I don't. I thought Bowe won convincingly. He looked the winner from the 2nd onwards for me. When the bell sounded at the end of the round I looked over at my brother, an even bigger Evander fan than I was then, and he said: "****, this is gonna be hard for 'Real Peanuts" (Evander looked like a bouncer we knew called 'peanuts' ).
It was a fantastic performance by Bowe I agree, possibly the best in a heavyweight title fight in the last 15 years.

 

I think he might get a little too much credit for beating Holyfield, but from what I read he doesn't get more credit than he deserved for beating that Mike Tyson imposter in Memphis.:good

 

I don't care what the odds for the fight were, Tyson's oppossition prior to the Lewis fight was not very impressive and guys like Chris Byrd, John Ruiz, Wladimir Klitschko and Vitali Klitschko were more worthy of a shot against Lewis than Tyson was.

Can JohnThomas tell me what Tyson had done to deserve a fight against Lewis?

 

I know this question was intended for JT, but I'll throw in my two cents if you don't mind. I don't think that it was so much a question as to weather or not Tyson deserved the shot as it was that it appealed to the public's desire to see such a matchup. Tyson was the last and final member of the era which Lewis came up in, and it was the only remaining stone that needed to be turned. While you may feel that it was proposterous to give Tyson a title shot in 2002, can you honestly say that you wouldn't be sitting here 5 years later saying " why didn't Lewis fight Tyson " , had it not happened?

 

I don't see why the earlier Holyfield would have been stopped by Lewis. The younger Holyfield showed fine durability and had a higher work rate.

 

Streetsaresafer, mr.magoo, awesome job of posting and putting everything in proper perspective.

JT, although I dont agree with many of your points, you always do an exellent job on the Lewis side.

Just about every poster involved in this thread deserve credit for their contribution.

The thread came full circle their a couple of pages ago......when that happens, sometimes tops can blow...
There was a little bit of namecalling, but cooler heads prevailed, which usually happens when there is quality posters going at it......

This is the first thread involving a discussion of Lewis and Holyfield that I've been involved with that did'nt get nasty and out of hand.
A former contributor to the Lewis side (Radar) blew his top calling everyone and thier momma names everytime someone made intelligent and valid points on the Holyfield side! :nut


But anyhow, nice to be involved in debate where an intelligent response breeds another........
Great debate guys, a thread in which others I believe can learn from.:thumbsup











I'm smiling from ear to ear!!!
I thought that Zakman and myself had represented Holyfield very well in the past, but Streetsareasafer, and mr.magoo have shown to have the same passion, knowleadge, and quite frankly imo put Holyfield's accomplishments in better perspective for everyone to understand!

Just happy to have two great posters representing the Real Deal!:thumbsup

 

Perhaps Tyson should not have arranged for Lewis to be paid $4million step aside money back in 1996. Perhaps Tyson should have met Lewis after he had beaten Seldon with the wind from one of his punches, as had previously been agreed. You know what Tyson did though. He chose to meet what he percieved to be the easier opponent and had his ass handed to him by Holyfield.

It is pretty much Mike Tyson's fault that Lewis never faced a better version of him in the ring. Indeed, Tyson only faced Lewis when he had no other excuses (or big paydays) left.

 

Well besides Magoo's excellent points i'll add this.

Lewis wanted Tyson and had for many years. This was also a massive money fight and they all want that.

Secondly as long as guys are defending against their mandatories when needed they can fight anyone within reason. Lord know how many undeserving challengers Holmes fought not to mention numerous others. Ali fought plenty. The champ doesn't fight one deserving challenger after another in a descending order of merit.

Lastly we both probably know that fighters with the biggest names are sometimes going to get a footup that others don't.

So there it is, but not quite in a nutshell

:good

 

Thanks divac, thanks for sure. We most always have both opposing viewpoints in this great little forum and some great deabte and points are always given on both sides. Anyone unsure of where they stand can always find plenty of food for thought both ways and perhaps get closer to making their own informed choices.

 

Divac's an excellent poster, great analysis. Pity about those scorecards.

 

I understand Lewis wanting to make money my point is just that the fight does little to help his legacy and does not allow Lewis fans to argue that he beat the best of his era since by that point Tyson was no longer among his best opponnents.

 

But it did help his legacy. Tyson wasn't like Ali vs Holmes or even Holmes vs Ali IMO. Better late than never.

 

Lewis was, in my opinion, the class of the heavyweight division, and one of the best heavyweight champions of history. He desreves credit for embalming Tyson, his disciplined victories over Holyfield ( I think he twice beat Holyfield) and for so decisively destroying the punk Rahman in the rematch, and all his other victories as well.