Does losing when Past your Prime Damage your legacy?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by sosolid4u09, Sep 3, 2010.


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  1. sosolid4u09

    sosolid4u09 4 8 15 16 23 42 banned Full Member

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    When discussing Roy Jones Jr lately with a friend, we were discussing how Had he retired after the Tarver fight, he would have gone down as one of the very greatest of all time. He was 34/35 at the time and clearly passing his prime.
    As it happened, he ended up getting thrashed by Tarver and Johnson then later Calzaghe Green and Hopkins, all while being well past his sell by date. And this seems to have damaged his legacy tremendously!

    Is that the case with other ATG's? nearly all of them go out on the back of lame defeats. They say the last person to know when its time to quit is the boxer himself. Ali lost 3 of his last 4 fights. Duran lost 3 of his last 5 fights. Ray Robinson had a pretty tame end to his career. Of course, if you fight long enough you will eventually lose. But how about great fighters who are clearly past their primes yet continue to fight and get beat. Does this damage their legacies? And if so, to what extent?

    There's a difference to being ''exposed'' and getting beat when clearly on the way down remember.
     
    sosolid4u09, Sep 3, 2010
    sosolid4u09, Sep 3, 2010
    #1
  2. RightCross

    RightCross Grandmaster of Boxing Full Member

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    It depends on what criteria people use to judge over all greatness. I have started threads on this in the past and there was no consensus. Most people have a very basic criteria which comes down to resume and nothing more.

    I disagree with only using a resume and I believe total fights W/L and championship fights play a role when determining greatness. So IMO it does hurt a fighter who hangs on towards the end of their career when they still have some ability and rack up losses. in RJJ's case he likely doesnt even need the money much unlike Joe Louis did.
     
    RightCross, Sep 3, 2010
    RightCross, Sep 3, 2010
    #2
  3. Manos de Piedra

    Manos de Piedra Active Member Full Member

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    It depends of who's doing to judging, clearly Roy Jones could lose ten times in arow now and it wouldn't matter.
     
    Manos de Piedra, Sep 3, 2010
    Manos de Piedra, Sep 3, 2010
    #3
  4. Garrus

    Garrus Big Boss 1935-2014 Full Member

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    Not for me.

    I don't penalize fighters when they're clearly past their past, i.e Ali-Holmes.
     
    Garrus, Sep 3, 2010
    Garrus, Sep 3, 2010
    #4
  5. mgdb26

    mgdb26 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    It's really sad and depressing to see Roy still fighting. Same thing with Castillo. I don't really think it damages their legacy though.
     
    mgdb26, Sep 3, 2010
    mgdb26, Sep 3, 2010
    #5
  6. Zakman

    Zakman ESB's Chinchecker Full Member

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    Agreed.
     
    Zakman, Sep 3, 2010
    Zakman, Sep 3, 2010
    #6
  7. Garrus

    Garrus Big Boss 1935-2014 Full Member

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    I thought he had retired? :huh
     
    Garrus, Sep 3, 2010
    Garrus, Sep 3, 2010
    #7
  8. lastletter26

    lastletter26 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Yes it does because that is what new fans and less knowledgable fans remember.
     
    lastletter26, Sep 3, 2010
    lastletter26, Sep 3, 2010
    #8
  9. Garrus

    Garrus Big Boss 1935-2014 Full Member

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    So their ignorance counts more than our knowledge?
     
    Garrus, Sep 3, 2010
    Garrus, Sep 3, 2010
    #9
  10. LukeO

    LukeO Erik Morales is God Full Member

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    if RJJ had retired after ruiz, he'd be compared to SRR daily on this forum.
     
    LukeO, Sep 3, 2010
    LukeO, Sep 3, 2010
    #10
  11. Garrus

    Garrus Big Boss 1935-2014 Full Member

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    Maybe.

    He'd be a lock for top 20.
     
    Garrus, Sep 3, 2010
    Garrus, Sep 3, 2010
    #11
  12. sosolid4u09

    sosolid4u09 4 8 15 16 23 42 banned Full Member

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    Agree with most on here. The sad thing these days is the casual media's total lack of boxing knowledge. Where records count for everything. For me its far more important who they fought, how many fighters in their prime, how many title defences, how many world champions they fought and the era they fought in.

    Nowadays the new gen boxing fans jump on wikipedia and boxrec and start blabbering random names and resumes and records, without knowing any context whatsoever. Its highly disturbing
     
    sosolid4u09, Sep 3, 2010
    sosolid4u09, Sep 3, 2010
    #12
  13. lastletter26

    lastletter26 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    What do you think is the majority? Some people cannot get past what they see.

    But I should have thrown in haters also to be beside the ignorant fans. You know haters say anything they can to make thier point and only need a few more haters behind them to make them content even though everyone else knows the truth.

    Later on down the line the ignorant and haters will not matter and the history will show what these fighters were.

    Still, RJJ would have had a reason to call himself the greatest if he would have retired at the right time.
     
    lastletter26, Sep 3, 2010
    lastletter26, Sep 3, 2010
    #13
  14. bald_head_slick

    bald_head_slick Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Short term? Maybe. Long term? Nope.
     
    bald_head_slick, Sep 3, 2010
    bald_head_slick, Sep 3, 2010
    #14
  15. Ukansodoff

    Ukansodoff Deontay plz stop ducking Joshua. Thank you. Full Member

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    I dont think so, the type of people that will discuss Roy Jones Jr in 5, 10 or 20 years time will be the type of people that know boxing enough to know which Roy Jones to talk about, not this RJJ the younger supreme Roy.

    Dont think he should be fighting on, hes shot to a level where hes taking uneccessary beatings but i will keep the 2 Jones seperate when i think about how great he was.
     
    Ukansodoff, Sep 3, 2010
    Ukansodoff, Sep 3, 2010
    #15
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