Does Marquez Have A Better Skill Set Than Pacman?

IMO, Barrera is his best win, followed by a distance second, Cotto.

Everything else has already some major asterisk involved.

In their fouth and final encounter Marquez was old and shopworn and still pasted him without doubt, hell, he went life and death with the journeyman from down under.

The moment FMJ makes Pac think in the Ring its over.

 

^ Yes

 

A very good fighter can make most look ordinary.

Sure, there will always be the case when a fighter looks better than he really is on a given night because his opponent isn't himself or past his best. But when you outclass half a dozen fighters in a way they've never come close to being handled before or after, the by far most probable reason is that it's you that is that good. That's how I tend to view things.

 

Yeah, you didn't specifically say "bum" Just someone who struggles against any resemblance of boxing, looks like a complete amateur, and is the product of marketing and match selection for uniformed casuals.

You better hope he loses on May 2nd.

 

No, his athleticism and speed allow him to do things that are not very basic and few fighters of this generation can pull off.

I've seen Pac pressure, and I've seen him box. He is not 1 dimension. No, sauhund II is wrong on all accounts.

Yeah...and Mike Tyson only had a straight right hand, left hook, fast foot work, fast flurries..etc. 1 dimensional, but hard to fight.

You are going to be in for a surprise.

 

But seeing as Floyd is 38 and 2 years older than Pac how does this benefit him? I mean if they fought 5 years ago Pac would be closer to his prime than Floyd......was Floyd still in his prime at 33? Probably but Pac definitely was at 31.

 

Hatton i can accept i'm in the minority in thinking it was a pathetic performance from him, but surely anyone familiar with Oscar's career could see he was a well past prime semi-retired fighter that had then cut too much weight.

in all honesty i stopped being impressed by DLH years before the Pac fight.A massively overrated fighter after his 147 days.

Cotto had already been beaten in reasonably similar-just not as emphatic- fashion by the unspectacular slow pressure and slugging of Margarito(if he had loaded gloves that night can't be proven) and his vulnerabilities that enabled pac to win the way he did are shown in numerous fights, he's been soundly beaten not long after the Manny fight as well by Trout and the aging Mayweather.

I don't want to run that win down as i think it was a great one in the context of Pac's climb through the weights, but what he did to Cotto is hardly unprecedented in the context of Miguel's own career.We all knew at the time if PAc was going to beat him(which seemed by no means a sure thing) it would be by taking advantage of his soft chin and average stamina...and so it was.

Margarito was smashed to bits by an old Mosley in his one good performance in just about a decade, before he fought Pac so that wasn't unprecedented either.He looked shot against Manny.

You've basically got Hatton and Clottey being beaten in truly unprecedented fashion by Manny at 140 and 147(anyone thinking the oscar fight was meaningful is in a serious minority, great as it was to see Oscar getting beaten up)...the weights i question his greatness at.Big deal, that's hardly out of the ordinary for someone who i still think was a good solid fighter at the very least, so we're not really arguing i guess.Plenty of good but far from great Welters can boast similar or superior accomplishments to that.

I just fail to see the special nature of Manny at 147, despite being as impressed as anyone at the time that he was even able to do what he did there, and being a big fan of the 126-135 Manny.

 

Time really is forgiving in boxing to popular folks isn't it? Most people at this point act like Floyd's win over JMM is comparable to Manny facing him at WW. When Floyd got him he had only had 2 fights at 135 then got dragged up two more, arguably three, weightclasses and was pudgy. A couple years later he became solid at 147 after working with Memo, illegal or not, looks like a hulking beast.

 

How can it be a fact before it even happened?

The very least you can do is try and respect both fighters, regardless of the outcome. I have zero patience for those who have to hate, or belittle, either fighter, in order to support their own.

Those that do that aren't boxing fans, they're merely cheerleaders.

Personally it think this fighter can go one of two ways. Either Floyd pot shots and/or counters, Pac hard enough to get his respect and gives him a boxing leason, or Pac overwhelms him with his power and work rate. Either scenario is fine with me.

 

What he does is all pretty basic. What 'skills' does he pull off? Stepping into a 1-2, lead straight lefts and lead right hooks while stepping into the punch, that's about it. Those are all pretty basic. It's not like he's a master punch slipper like RJJ or anything. It's not a knock him much more than saying 'Pep wasn't a big puncher' or 'Frazier was 1 handed'. All boxers have weaknesses and strengths.

What he does do is continually stay on his toes moving in and out and throws leather at a remarkable pace. He's a stamina machine. That's his immense strength.

He can do those things to a degree but he can't pressure effectively against someone with good movement because he can't cut off the ring. Whenever a boxer gets on the backfoot he has problems because of this and just follows them around. And box effectively against a Margarito, sure but it's not the performance of a master boxer.

Tyson could box at range and outjab much rangier men despite being a midget. He could get incredible leverage inside and slip punches and cut off the ring. His skillset is far more diverse than Pacquaio's. Pacqauio can't get leverage when close to an opponent. He can't slip punches than well. He flurries rather than throws combinations.

So on that basis his skillset is less diverse than Tyson.

I suggest viewing Marquez 3 again

 

I would of like to have seen him in with a fast defensive mover/counter puncher like Guzman, Chris John, Raheem or even an old Casamayor.

He's going into the biggest fight of his life, fighting the best of this generation in that style without having really faced anything similar bar Marquez who isn't nearly as defensive.

He also has generally performed worse against elite right hands, ie Marquez, Morales and done much better against left hookers Barrera, Cotto, Hatton, DLH.

 

Yes he does. I'm surprised that Marquez didn't KO him in the earlier fights considering how Pac's style is tailor-made for him. Shows levels in Pac's ability in my opinion.

 

Age is irrelevant here because Pac has more wear and tear on him than Mayweather. Pac was at his best destroying Hatton..that's the time that this fight should have taken place. Mayweather may be older, but he has more on his odometer than does Manny.

 

Preferably the second scenario.

 

You could break down everything RJJ did in such a way, and say he was basic. It's about how Pac uses his athleticism to execute these moves and how he strings them together, the double left lead off one foot and all the weird stuff he throws, nobody else could do. It's not basic, if nobody else can execute it at that level. And while he may not slip punches like Jones Jr, darting in and out of range before his opponent can throw back is all part of that reflex and agility package.


Than every fighter could be described as 1 dimensional, and the description is worthless. Mayweather is predomiantly defensive and pot shots, he doesn't pressure and throw combinations, we could say he is 1 dimensional in that sense.

Actually he does cut off the ring, I haven't seen a fight where he failed to tag his opponent frequently. Even Bradley and Marquez got hit a lot. What Pacman lacks as the years and pounds pile up is big one punch power, not the ability to find his opponents.

So does Pacman. We could both pull examples and argue class of opponent and situation..blah blah blah. The point was you can't say a guy is 1 dimensional and lacking in skill than list a paragraph of punches he executes better than just about anybody.

Mayweather fights nothing like Marquez, and I thought that fight was a clear Pac win.

Marquez/Pac II was the close one I feel Marquez could be said to have edged. But III, that is one I have to disagree with the majority on. I don't see it.