Does Sonny Liston divide opinion more than any other heavyweight?

Well, his jab was like a mule’s kick ... of course he should have used it more.

 

the fight with London was level. London was pulled out of the fight because of the cut. He said it was the ref who stopped it but it was unclear from ringside and was therefore incorrectly reported as a corner retirement.

mike was a good opponent. I wish that fight was filmed. But he’s a level below Sonnys best wins over Harris, Machen and Folley. Had Sonny got to the title earlier I doubt Dejohn would have been challenger material. If you dismiss Brian London for Patterson then why not dismiss Dejohn? He lost to the same guy London did.

a good win indeed. Bethea is ham and eggs though. He’s fair journeyman. Nobody mentions Marciano opponents like Buonvino, Beshore, Bernie Reynolds or Ted Lowrey as feathers in Rockys cap even though he beat them too. Bethea was that kind of opponent. Once Sonny beat Folley, Harris and Machen it’s not worth mentioning that level of guy anymore.

the Summerlin fights were very close. It was a tough opponent for him at that time. But 1954 was years before either was rated. Your scraping the barrel for learning fights to include here. Sonny wasn’t “Liston” until about 1959 at least.

obviously Marshall was a learning opponent. I didn’t bring him up.

 

what was Williams best opponent since losing to Satterfeild though? Williams was still rebuilding from that loss after taking two years away from boxing.

Sure, Williams later became a legitimate contender. But by this time Williams was stepping up against Sonny. His first name since Satterfield.

 

The point was Brian London was always rated above Sonny Liston before Patterson defended his title against him. Always.

 

Liston said DeJohn was the best puncher he met ,after Williams.

 

What wins of Liston's do you think might have been fixed?lol
They had no need to fix his fights, he was clearly better than his opponents!

 

Yes. He probably was. I’m not doubting Dejohns power. I just don’t think he deserves to be grouped among title challenger status opponents like Harris, Machen and Folley. George Chuvalo said Mel Turnbow hit him as hard as anybody. Punching power is not exclusive to all time greats.

 

Sonny did not need his fights fixed but Some of those fights in Sweden Sonny had looked a bit iffy. Most great fighters fought their share of reluctant opposition. Sonny was no different.

 

You're been quoting Trish Dixons book.I bought it on your recommendation ,very informative ,but ultimately rather sad still it was only a couple of quid.

 

I'm referring to when he was mobbed up and up and coming not ,an old man going through the motions.

 

Yes, I just finished it. Very tragic in parts but there were a few bits of gold dust in there. What fascinates me is the less known guys and the info they have. James Beatie was an interesting guy.

 

I remember him and an article in the BI about his fight with James J Woody,I didn't know he was regarded as a puncher.Interesting tid bit.He played the Willard role in the Great White Hope.

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I was suprised how many fights he had and how good his record was. He says he was a mob fighter.

 

Choke proved his ultimate troll job with his latest heavyweight rankings,

He has Liston all he way down at number 15; behind Ezzard Charles and Max Schmeling. Of course right next to Patterson, coming in at 16. He loves to lump those two together as if they were on the “same level”

 

What win does Liston have on his resume that comes close to matching up against Charles wins over Walcott & Louis or Schemllings victory over Louis? Patterson KO1 x2 maybe? If that's the case and you think Liston was that much better than Floyd, how do you justify rating him higher than Charles or Schmelling?