Does the fact that Dawson rehydrated to 185 lbs...

Some fighters can cut weight more effectively than others and cope with the effects better. This clearly isn't the norm for Dawson to drop so much weight. 17lbs is a lot for any fighter to re-hydrate.

Personally I think Ward would have won even if the fight had been at 175lbs though he would not have been as dominant as he was and may not have dropped Dawson as easily, as he is not known for his power, yet Dawson was hurt repeatedly which should tell anyone that Dawson was not close to 100%.

 

I just wonder if there was any muscle loss during the process of coming down in weight. For instance, was his muscle mass weight more at LH than it was at SMW and is that what he lost more so than just doing the weight-manipulation with water for the weigh-in ?

The diet alone coming down in weight and maybe even how they trained physically to make sure they made weight could have taken its toll.

It's why I would have rather this fight just be at 175/LH where we know both fighters would be healthy. But maybe Ward had his own reasons as to why he didn't want to move up himself. To go up and then back down may have not been an option for him. Although, why can't you just fight the guy at LH and not worry about increasing your own weight?

 

Not sure I mean rehyrating that much weight can't be healthy for anyone, I know some fighters are able to do it and their performance doesn't suffer from it. But not all fighters can cut weight and still perform 100 % come fight night.

IBF I think has a rule were you are only allowed to put on so much weight after the weigh in, I think all organisations should also make this a rule as it is safer for the fighters themselves not cutting so much weight but also safer for the fighters who aren't big for the division.

 

Yes, but that's talking about losing it and then exerting yourself while still dehydrated, or doing it wrong.

That is NOT what boxers do, unless their trainers are idiots. Like I wrote, there should be little effect if the process is done PROPERLY. - including nutritional supplements and electrolytes.

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Look at the listed negatives, with analysis:

"reduce blood and plasma volume, this results in a decrease in the amount of blood pumped out by the heart, consequently the heart has to work harder in an attempt to maintain an adequate blood (oxygen) supply to the working muscles."

Yes, and this problem goes away as soon as you re-hydrate.

"decrease testosterone levels." - No comment, as I don't know. Perhaps this is a factor.

increase blood lactate accumulation." NO. Not if done properly, with suppliments. (I have a Masters degree in kinesiology.)

"impair the body’s ability to sweat, resulting is an increased risk of overheating."
- Yet another effect that disappears as soon as you dehydrate.

“Dehydration results in reduced muscle blood flow, waste removal, and heat dissipation, all of which are necessary for sustained, high power muscle action in events such as boxing and judo.”

- Again, not a factor after rehydrating.

Taken to the extreme, rapid weight loss when achieved through dehydration can be fatal... indeed in 1997, within a period of thirty-three days, three young American wrestlers tragically died whilst trying to ‘make their weight’ "

A case of un-supervised idiots doing it the wrong way, and for far too long. Does not apply to a top boxer.

After completing the weigh-in, fighters typically try to rapidly replace lost body fluids in an attempt to return to a normal state of hydration. However, the fighter is unlikely to eat and drink sufficiently because of the negative effects of fighting on a full stomach. In many cases the time between the weigh-in and first contest is usually insufficient for fluid and electrolyte balance to be fully re-established in muscles"

-This shows a complete lack of modern methods by the author. There are safe ways to rehydrate quickly, and electolytes are never a problem if supplimentts are taken.
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Again, these researchers are looking at low-level, poorly trained athletes. My point was and still is that top athletes with well-trained S&C coaches can do this with very little ill effect, and the whole "weight drained" thing is more of a convenient excuse than anything else, or just something impressive to say for the announcers.

One has only to consider all the boxers who have dropped massive weight for a fight, and then won convincingly. Seriously, end of discussion.

The one factor that does intrigue me, though, is loss of testosterone. (Actually, it would be androgen, but why quibble?)
If true (and I'd want to see more research) then this MIGHT explain why Dawson seemed so lethargic.

-But I doubt it. Mostly he was just outclassed by a surprisingly aggressive Ward.
(also you can just take a testosterone injection to bring you back up to normal levels, and that's legal, but I digress....)

 

call me dumb but these guys have 24 hours to rehydrate, i dont understand the weight drain issue when you have 24 hours

i mean i can see examples maybe like Oscar when he weighed 145 and on fight night was 147 that was dumb

but Dawson had 24 hours and gained 17 back, im no expert in fitness science or anything but i would think with 24 hours it should be good

i mean probably only thing weight did was distract from training

 

Right back at ya'. Did I mention that I have a Masters in Kinesiology?

Anyway, here's the first Google hit I found MYSELF, looking for the proper & completely safe way to drop weight fast.:

http://www.grapplearts.com/Blog/2012/03/how-to-cut-and-make-weight/

It's far from comprehensive, but it gets to the point and I'm tired of this.

Your turn.

 

You have to completely delete you glycogen stores and almost all fat before the body starts breaking down muscle fibers for fuel. At that point, you'd barely be able to walk around, and it would be very obvious that you took things to far.

It's not going to happen with a boxer making weight.

 

How the **** is it possible to 'rehydrate' 18 lbs in 24 hours? If that's true, his body was probably out of whack.

 

I know fat burns before Muscle but you can lose both fat and muscle during the process of dieting/training down.

You still need to fuel your muscles with proper protein, fat, and carbs to keep them.

So, I was wondering what his actual muscle weight was at LH compared to what it was at SMW.


There are ways to hold on to more water or rehydrate back up past normal (which Ariza talks about) which is why I would rather know the actual muscle mass weight.

 

I hate that people try to use this whole "drained" excuse for fighters who came up short when matched up against truly special fighters.

They do it with Manny all the time.....well...some fans who hate PAC do it all the time but I've seen a few guys who are trying to do it with Ward....Give Andre his props. He did his thing against Dawson and no one should be trying to say it was because of the weight.

The same with PAC....PAC dominated great fighters who were bigger...they came down in weight and PAC dominated...Give him his dues...they are proven and they go at the bigger men and take on the risk.

Great win for Andre and its a shame people want to take away from the win with this garbage.

 

You would be less likely to use the "excuse/reason" if these fights were held at proper weights for the health of the fighter.


And when an opponent either demands they come down or accepts the challenge for the bigger man to come down...it's going to get criticized after the fact because it wasn't the best option. The best option is for the health of the fighter and to give the fans a match between two health fighters and let the best man win inside the ring and not before.

Now if a fighter himself screws up his diet/training/weight in his normal setting...that's on him.

 

Fighters do it all the time. 10-20 pounds. Some fighters have it down like a science. Others try to but screw up. You better have someone in camp that knows what he is doing.

Either way, you always run the risk of possibly showing negative effects even if you have been successful in the past.

Fighters like Floyd and Pac can eat comfortably during camp and not have a problem making weight in the division they fight. Others who don't, run the risk.

 

His punch resistance was a bigger telling, he was getting hurt with everything Ward threw. I know his chin isn't that great but it sure as hell wasn't that weak before.

 

I don't think DLH was drained....he just wasn't in his PRIME, nor was he at his ideal weight but he was in shape...he was in great condition but he took too many shots early on and he lost his "will" to overcome and win. He gave up because PAC was simply too fast, too elusive and DLH wasn't use to getting dominated. It's an excuse that is common with losers.... "I lost because I was weight drained"...or "I couldn't make the weight comfortably"..

No... you lost because there was a better man in front of you that night... Period.

 

Dawson always claimed that he could make 168 easily and it was his idea to fight at that weight. the fact that he rehydrated so much shows that he wasn't having problems with the cut. The only thing he had problems with on fight night was catching Ward's punches on the chin.