Does Tunney go 49-0 against Marcianos Opposition?

Archie Moore never beat anyone as good as Gene Tunney.

Gene Tunney beat Dempsey. Twice.

Against the Archie Moore who Rocky Marciano faced, Gene Tunney successfully defends the world heavyweight title against the crouching, bobbing and weaving old Archie.

 

Probably not. I could easily see him running afoul of either Charles and Moore might well find a way to lower the boom on him, too.

 

How much tougher was it?

Art Henri? Willis Applegate? Roland LaStarza?

Who did Rocky beat who was as good as Jack Dempsey? Tunney dominated him.

 

Archie Moore never beat anyone as good as Jack Dempsey.

 

They were better than Rocky Marciano's BROTHER, who admitted he stepped in against Rocky under an assumed name and took a dive.

Yes, K.O. Jaffre and Tommy Gavigan were better than Rocky Marciano's brother taking a dive and were better than guys like Jimmy Weeks and Gilbert Cardone, and John Edwards and all the setups Rocky was facing early on.

I don't think Gene would tie with any of them.

 

If you actually just said Rex Layne was better than Jack Dempsey, this thread has gone off the cliff.

 

Suzie didn't exactly say that, but by the logic you build your case on, why not? You keep saying Tunney is better because Tunney beat an old Dempsey, whom you judge better than anyone Moore beat.

Well, Dempsey's best win is over Sharkey. Layne's are over Walcott and Charles. A great many observers, possibly a majority, would consider either Walcott or Charles, or both of them, better than Sharkey.

It is at least a reasonable position. The weakness of this argument is that beating someone who is better than anyone the other guy beat doesn't prove you are better than that guy. Frazier did better against Ali than Foreman or Liston, but that hardly proves he beats Foreman and Liston.

And in the case of fighters decades apart we are not even going the A beat B while B beat C, so therefore A is better than C, route. This argument is A beat B and decades later X beat Y, so A is better than X. Pure guesswork.

My take is that heavyweight boxing improved noticeably between the 1920's and the 1950's.

 

"They were better than Rocky Marciano's BROTHER, who admitted he stepped in against Rocky under an assumed name and took a dive."

These were exhibitions. It was known at the time and Marciano was suspended for it. I don't know if his brother actually took a dive or just sparred with him. All of Marciano's 49 victims are known and you can look them up on boxrec.

Repeating this kind of inaccuracy is what really takes this thread off the rails.

"I don't think Gene would tie with any of them."

But he did fight draws with mediocrities in his own time. This is facts against supposition.

And, off the records, it appears Tunney fought a lot more set-ups than Marciano.

 

Tunney did beat a Dempsey who had the benefit of 7 rounds against Sharkey.He said he noticed the difference in Dempsey when they came to ring centre for the instructions ,before he had been almost disinterested but for the rematch he was "all coiled wire springs ".