Does Tunney go 49-0 against Marcianos Opposition?

"Do you really see a big difference between LaStarza and Lowry over Greb, Loughran, Levinsky, and Gibbons."

Yes. You are comparing men Marciano fought early in his career, both of whom he beat decisively later, to men Tunney fought after about 7 years as a pro, close to or at his peak.

"it makes sense they could"

Anything COULD happen. But I do think if the bigger men and harder hitters Marciano fought didn't beat him, assuming these smaller men do is a bridge too far for me.

 

Where we disagree by miles is I don't think you need to be a big hitter to out point Marciano. Bigger and slower was actually easier for Rocky. The less conditioned or china chinned were also easier for Rocky.

The faster, more mobile fighters with defense, gave him the most trouble. The film shows us this. The guys Tunney fought fit that description, and all of whom I mentioned were better than Lowry.

I don't think LaStarza was that good, I'd rate Greb and Gibbons as equal, with probably better chins than LaStraza, despite LaStarza being bigger.

Vs Marciano I'd trade 20 pounds for more durable with better conditioning in the later rounds any day. LaStarza wasn't a puncher. Neither was Lowry.

To close with a slow career arch, and perhaps some close calls on the cards vs mobile boxer types, I think Rocky is losing at least once to all the guys Tunney fought.

 

I know what we're talking about. I think Tunney could defeat everyone Marciano fought.

If you think Gene may have lost one of Rocky's opponents, fine. I don't.

Is old Joe Louis beating the Gene Tunney who skated around Dempsey? No.

Is old Walcott and old Ezzard beating Tunney at his best? No.

Is Archie Moore, who not only never beat any man who held the heavyweight title but got knocked out by all of the future or reigning heavy champs he did meet, going to beat a prime Tunney? No.

Everyone else on Rocky's record Gene Tunney beats handily.

 

That is not the way heavyweight boxing works. Marciano fought as a heavyweight generally against heavyweights.

Sugar Ray Robinson and Willie Pep were great fighters, but not at heavyweight.

 

box rec lists him as 79-1-4 with 1 NC.

 

Oh please, Sugar Ray Robinson and Willie Pep were never the heavyweight champion of the world.

Gene Tunney was the world heavyweight champion.

Gene Tunney beat top fighters and hall of famers from Middleweight to Heavyweight.

We're not comparing featherweights and heavyweights here.

 

Well you can't say Rocky's at his best for all of the fights. If he had Tunney's career path, he's losing somewhere.

Remember Rocky was 8-4 as an amateur and fought easy marks until his fight 25th fight vs LaStarza, then his management pulled back the reigns a bit until he was ready.

Loughran was 34-4-2 when he fought Tunney. Young, yes, but very experienced. 40 fights is a full career these days.

Gibbons was 34 for Tunney. On an 11 fight winning streak. It was his lone KO loss. I recommend the video, Tunney was savage with body shots here.

Age is not something Marciano fans should really debate, as Walcott and Moore for example were older than Gibbons. I tend to think Gibbons had something left if he wanted to press on.

 

You say that like it's at the top of the all-time list.

That was 95 years ago. It was a "disputed" decision.

There are disputed decisions every day.

The officials gave it to Tunney.

I'm sure there have been FAR WORSE decisions in New York in the 95 years since that fight took place.

 

Hard to tell.

How many 19-year-old future Hall of Famers with 40 pro fights did Rocky Marciano fight?

How many future Hall of Famers did Rocky fight when they were in their 20s?

How many future Hall of Famers did Rocky fight who were younger than Rocky was when he retired at age 32?

How would Rocky do against any all-time great fighter who was approaching or at his peak as a fighter?

Who knows. He never fought any who were on their way up or were at their best.

 

Tunney beat Carpentier too.

Marciano is very different than Dempsey. Dempsey had much better speed and reach, forcing boxer types to retreat, and the feet to catch them. Maybe he lacked the gas tank to keep it up.

Marciano sort of the opposite. Not that fast handed, or as fleet footed, with a very short reach, allowing lighter boxers a better chance to score and stay away from him. But he had a bigger gas tank, and could catch up to those who could not keep a fast pace for 10-15 rounds.

Yes, I think Gibbons ( who was 34, not 35 ) was a mobile boxer. He went the distance with Dempsey for example.

Like I said I would not pick any one Tunney beat to beat Marciano alone, but with 80+ fights, and plenty of them being very good mobile boxer types with plenty of stamina, I think Rocky's losing at least once along the way.

The difference between being 49-0 and 48 and 1 or 47-2 is how the judges scored the 1st LaStarza fight and the 1st Lowry fight. I don't understand why some can't see Greb, Gibbons, Carpenter, Levinsky, or Loughran having a similar or perhaps even better night vs Marciano in 9 total matches.

Okay I said my thoughts. I'll let others comment from here.

 

"Gene Tunney was the world heavyweight champion"

Yes, but Harry Greb was the middleweight champion. So Tunney is fighting the middleweight champion on largely equal footing. This is a credit to Greb, but I see it as less of a credit to Tunney. This is two divisions down from the division in which he later was champion.

The issue I would raise is how does this reflect on the quality of the heavyweights of the 1920's?