Does Tyson deserve more credit for his Holmes fight?

someone’s memory is faulty. Perhaps it’s mine. Will go rewatch. My apologies if it is indeed mine.

 

No apologies required either way.

 

Larry wasn't the best winner at times, he was never going to lose well. Shavers, Cooney and Norton would have all whooped Tyson etc LOL

Yeah the leg wasn't good. When you get sparked anything can happen on the way down.

 

You won’t be the one who needs to apologize in any case.

 

My take is..
If THAT version of Holmes had fought anyone else in the top 20 of the time, then they still wouldn't have gotten Larry out that fast.

 

I don't agree.

Holmes adjusted his style in his 40s by fighting off the ropes to make up for the fact he no longer had his legs kind of like Ali in the latter stages of his career.

That was able to work against Mercer who was a bit green in professional ranks and didn't have the boxing IQ at the time.

And against Holyfield in some respects who wasn't a massive puncher at Heavyweight.

But Holmes trying that approach vs Tyson would get him knocked out even quicker.

You cannot sit on the ropes and let Tyson unload on you that is basically a recipe for disaster.

Tyson would rip combinations to the body and come up top and Holmes would be having a very bad time in there.

Holmes is my favourite Heavyweight BTW but there's no way Holmes at that stage of his career makes it close vs a prime Tyson.

 

On one hand, he deserves a lot of credit for that win. On the other, we can't act like it was not 6 years past prime, inactive Larry Holmes.

 

He's the only heavyweight to knock out Larry Holmes. That is something to be proud of. Even a 70% Holmes is better than most contenders. It doesn't mean he beats Larry at his very best but he still might have.

Its the way Mike beat him that is most impressive. He fought an older guy ok he did what he was supposed to do. Sent him to retirement in devastating fashion.
I'm not sure Holmes could have beat Tyson at his very best. A toss up imo.

 

Forgive me if this is specific to the point of being pedantic (though you did state "correct me if such an athlete exists"), but I believe Foreman was more effective aged 40-42, possibly even all the way up to 45, than he was at 38-39, at the beginning of his comeback following a 10-year hiatus. That's the obvious and extreme example, but there probably will be others.

Of course you're correct that natural physical attributes only decline from mid to late 30's onwards, but it is possible for relative activity to more than offset that into an athlete's 40's.

 

I think we are now on the same page, in that relative activity can more than offset natrual physical decline into a figters 40's.

To continue the theme of being pedantic, I'll go one better, albeit by citing an extreme and unusal outlier. Archie Moore was better, at least from the perspective at being effective in winning boxing matches, in his early 40's than he was during his 20's (and arguably early 30's), as evidenced by his results.

 

You could extend that to any heavyweight in history and know that barely any would have been able to do it. Excluding Tyson we may well be talking anywhere from 0 to 5.

 

John it was an excellent performance, but I do not know we can say almost nobody or none could get him out that fast.

Holmes looked tentative, some say scared, & given that & that he had accepted the fight so quickly, with an infamously short training camp after a long period of inactivity...

If we were talking about prime Holmes, 0-5 might be right.
I always thought peak Tyson would take Holmes out, but ALi would take Tyson out.

But when we are talking about the bost elite fighters, no OTHER elite fighters can afford to be way under their historical best & expect to survive long.

Anywho, reasonable minds can disagree, but I think Holmes while still very good at that time, like, say, post-Manilla Ali, was way under his best.

 

I agree, Holmes timing was off against Tyson, if he could have landed his right hand,,,,,

 

Tyson has called this his best performance and I can see why. I rate this highly, not just among Tyson's own but all time.