Does Ward Kovalev winner deserve to be pfp #1

Yes the winner here is #1 P4P. The loser should still be in the top 10 P4P to.

 

Do you think Ward deserves to still be top 10 if he loses? Based on what? If he gets beat (and I don't think he will) his recent record would not be good enough to be in the top ten IMO

 

Yes because he's a top P4P talent and just lost to a superior fighter. Do you think Kovalev should remain in the top 10 P4P? Afterall you said Ward hasn't beaten anyone recently.

 

Pound-for-pound is nonsensical bullsh!t.
Pure hype.

Boxing is divided into weight classes. Fighters compete against the rest of their weight class.
It makes absolute no sense to have a pfp list where you win a fight at light-heavy and that knocks a flyweight off the top spot. Ridiculous concept.

 

I think it would certainly put him down the rankings, he would probably still make top ten. I just think with Ward's inactivity and recent fights, then a loss is not top 10 P4P

 

By this definition, Pacquiao is still #1 by a long mile.

 

Do we need this topic every week?

http://www.boxingforum24.com/thread...kovalev-and-ward-is-1-pound-for-pound.574279/
http://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/winner-of-ward-v-kovalev-the-new-p4p-1.568396/

 

How is Gonzalez' crown feeble? Champion in 4 weight classes, 46-0 (38KOs), victor of 16 title fights, notable wins Estrada (should be rated p4p), Cuadras, Viloria (once rated p4p), Sosa, Yaegashi, Takayama. He's basically as accomplished as Floyd Mayweather was going into the De La Hoya fight in 2007.

Compare his resume to Ward and Kovalev's, if either wins.

Ward will be - Champion in 2 weight classes,31-0 (15KOs), victor of 11 title fights, notable wins Kovalev (p4p), Froch (p4p), Kessler, Abraham, Bika, Dawson.

Kovalev will be - Champion in 1 weight class, 31-0-1 (26KOs), victor of 10 title fights, notable wins Ward (p4p), Pascal, Hopkins, Cleverly.

Roman Gonzalez would still have a superior record to either man, regardless of who wins their fight.

 

Then you are deciding to go by the eye test? Who looks more skilled, beats their opponents most convincingly? Lomachenko doesn't have a fraction of the record Gonzalez, Ward, or Kovalev have. He just looks good. Seriously, Naoya Inoue has done more than him. Why isn't he #3?

 

So is arguing about who would win a Froch Calzaghe fight in their primes. People still do it and find it meaningful even though noone will ever know for sure except probably the two fighters.

Assuming that the P4P concept exists, then by deduction the top fighters can be found. Subjectively I've got Roman Gonzalez , Lomachenko , Walters , GGG, Ward and Kovalev. I don't see any other deserving fighters.

The Lomachenko Walters fight winner could be the p4p if the winner does it in convincing fashion whilst ideally showing us some great attribute. At this stage I will exclude those 2 as not having done enough to be p4p.

GGG has owed the MW division's best but I don't see the career defining fight. He would murder Canelo and Jacobs but they are chicken shits. I don't believe he should be forced to move up in weight until he has unified . Two of the greatest MWs in history in Hagler and Monzon stayed put. Regardless, he needs that big fight against a proven top echelon opponent to get into p4p calculations.

The midget Roman could be argued as tge current p4p. Absolutely class boxer who does everything well. Movement, cutting off the ring, doesn't waste energy, two handed power, can counter or lead, avoids taking big shots with his defence and fights for 12 rounds. His last performance against a bigger fighter was good but not outstanding.

Now Ward and Kovalev are up there, but the fact they can fight another p4p fighter gives them a clear advantage because we can classify them objectively within the top echelon of boxing. It is this reason that, assuming a fair and convincing win, the winner should take the p4p crown. At least until Loma Walters.

 

He's got several times the record of any active fighter, but then so does Donaire. If we are going to take record into consideration, then we need to consider if the fighters are still in their primes and can accomplish the same feats that they once did. With Pacquiao and Donaire this is clearly not happening.

That's why I didn't rate Mayweather #1 for years and had Ward and Rigondeaux above him. No way was old Mayweather capable of beating all the guys young Mayweather beat, and definitely not the way that he beat them. Those last couple of years when he was just fighting Maidana, Guerrero, Ortiz, and Berto I had a lot of doubts that he was even the best welterweight and might get beaten by Brook, Khan, or Thurnam.

Past accomplishments only matter when you are prime. Past prime, you are only as good as your last couple fights. As of his last fight, I don't think Pac is top 10 anymore. He won, but he didn't dominate. The Pac of 2009 would have put Vargas to sleep in the early rounds.

That's another reason why I don't rate Kovalev's victory over Bernard Hopkins very highly. At one time, Bernard was pound for pound material, but the 50 year old Hopkins who showed up to fight Kovalev would be completely outclassed by the 2001 version. Same goes for Gonzalez' victory over Viloria. Viloria was once in the p4p lists, but not when he fought him.

 

No but how good an opponent looks does factor into it as it's important to assess the manner of his victories.
Lomachenko takes no.3 IF he beats Walters who is seen by many as elite. Naoya is high.
Kovalev-Ward winner will be no.1 IMO because to me, on a H2H level they're both ATG's.

 

No, they won't surpass Chocolatito - but they absolutely deserve to be called the #1 at light heavy, by some distance ahead of Stevenson, no ifs ands or buts.

 

Yes, but I'm still kinda meh on it, I think we're still waiting for someone to take over from Pac-Floyd so until one of THOSE guys comes along, I don't really take the whole p4p #1 business as seriously.

 

But Walters is an overrated pug! He kicked Donaire's ass because he was so much bigger than him and Donaire is shot. He's probably not even as good as Viktor Postol who clipped Matthysse. Crawford deserves that spot as much as Lomachenko if it's based on career victories. They are both two division champs and Gamboa is probably worth as much as Russell Jr. If not, Ricky Burns could round things out.