Does winning the Colored Heavyweight Champ carry the weight as winning an Alpha Title?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by ironchamp, Jul 11, 2019 at 8:36 AM.



How does the Colored Title compare to an Alpha Title?

  1. Colored Title is More Prestigious

    43.8%
  2. Alpha Title is More Prestigious

    25.0%
  3. About the Same

    31.3%
  1. ironchamp

    ironchamp Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Thoughts?

    Edited for clarification:

    Colored Title vs WBC/WBA/IBF Belt (individually held, not unified and without the Lineal HW Title)
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2019 at 12:57 PM
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  2. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti The Ad Wolgast of Googling Stuff Full Member

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    Edit: for some reason I was thinking of comparing colored title to the lineal when the color line was drawn. I confess I'm an idiot. See below.

    No.

    Peter Jackson and Harry Wills are really exceptional in being the level of the lineal champ, and only the latter defended his coloured title. You could probably add Jack Johnson's coloured reign too.

    I don't see the case for counting something like George Byers' reign, during which he lost to Tommy West and George Gardner as counting even as much as the title claims of Hart or Maher.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2019 at 1:32 PM
  3. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Member Full Member

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    For the three you mentioned ,I would say yes, but not for the others I am aware of.
     
  4. ironchamp

    ironchamp Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Let me give you an example, Is Tim Witherspoon winning the WBC title more prestigious than say Bill Tate winning the Colored Heavyweight Title?
     
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  5. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Member Full Member

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    "Wills was disqualified for knocking Tate down after the referee's call to break; Both fighters agreed to a rematch four days later, at no cost to the fans.
    Tate claims the Black Heavyweight Title."
    No not really.
     
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  6. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Depends upon the era.

    In the stronger eras certainly.
     
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  7. ironchamp

    ironchamp Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Would winning a Colored Title during its existence against a A level fighter equate to being the same thing as to Winning just the WBC title (not unified/not lineal) against an A level fighter?
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2019 at 1:17 PM
  8. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Member Full Member

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    There you may be on to something.
     
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  9. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti The Ad Wolgast of Googling Stuff Full Member

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    Damn, it somehow didn't click you meant alphabet titles. I was more thinking of lineal titles.

    I think Sam Langford's colored title is much more meaningful than say Charles Martin's alphabelt.

    Both have had some extremely good fighters, and a lot fluff. Hard to quantify how much each has had.

    Neither counts for a lot on it's own IMO. Atleast the colored title meant something, even if there were a number of better white contenders.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2019 at 1:34 PM
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  10. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    The quality of the fighters contesting the colored title, and by extension its relevance, picked up dramatically in the early 1900s.

    It meant very little when George Byers held it, but was a big deal when Sam Langford held it.
     
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  11. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

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    Short answer, it depends on who the champion was.

    Long Answer, the colored title, the white title or the Mexican titles often had fewer organized high level matches, so in a general sense they meant less.
     
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  12. louis54

    louis54 Active Member Full Member

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    Yep
     
  13. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    No.

    You basically had to be a black man from North America to fight for and win the colored heavyweight title. That's pretty restrictive. I don't know of any who weren't.

    The alphabet titles don't discriminate against boxers because of their race or nationality. Anyone from anywhere can fight for an alphabet title.

    So the colored title wasn't exactly a "world" title. Which fighters outside of North America ever fought for it, let alone won it?

    Truthfully, the colored title was more of a regional title or a domestic title.
     
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  14. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Not here for the fairy tales Full Member

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    I think I agree with that. The same is true of the white heavyweight championship too.
     
  15. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Yes.

    Tim Witherspoon winning the WBC is more prestigious.

    You didn't have to be a black man from North America to fight for or win the WBC heavyweight title.
     

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