doez Zhang hit harder than George Foreman ?

Loudon · Sep 30, 2023

Rollin said: ↑

When did Foreman fail to stop a 6′ 0½ Andryi Rudenko?

People in this thread throwing around lbs and inches are just as bad as rose-colored glasses old-timers. Duhaupas stopped a 6′ 6½ 255lbs superheavyweight. Andry Ruiz knocked around a 6'6 250lbs behemoth. Ali Eren Demirezen halted a 6'6, 254lbs modern big guy. They must be such massive punchers. Except that they stopped Robert Helenius, Anthony Joshua, and Gerald Washington, whose chins are immensly suspect, and nowhere near the likes of Ali, Chuvalo, Foreman, Mercer, or Lyle. In a similar manner, one can rave about Uzcudun or Loughran going the distance against 6'6, 270lbs behemoth, except Primo Carnera was never a big puncher, but an outside boxer switching into a mauling, attrition style when needed. History has proven that chins and power ought to be compared on individual basis. Both Liston and Shavers, 6 or 6'1 guys are in another realm as far as punching power goes even compared to some bigger modern fighters. Size is a decent and relatively reliable metric to predict punching power and durability among large groups of fighters; to make an educated guess essentially. In over a century of boxing however, when discussing exceptional individuals, a particular scrutiny that goes beyond reliable generalization is required.

Comparing their most durable victims is a good start (Joyce has a fantastic chin and took shots from Dubois before; on another note one might criticize how easily an actual accurate puncher can land on the sweet spot on the chin or the nose) but Foreman is immediately demeaned into a middleweight beating cruiserweight. Stopping George Chuvalo and making Ron Lyle collapse into the ground like a dead man (despite him enduring 6 rounds of all out assault from Earnie Shavers and getting up from the canvas to eventually stop him) are probably the most apt comparisons to the Joyce stoppages. You can also add him carrying his power into later rounds, as he was the only man to ever stop the outstanding defensive technician Gregorio Peralta in the 10th, despite him surviving the likes of Lyle (times two) and Bonavena on his feet. Other than you can go by an eye test (Foreman toppling people with casual looking blows or hurting people out without proper leverage; fighters outright quitting against him) and accolades:

I) Holyfield, who fought Lewis, Bowe, Cooper, Moorer, Rahman (Oh, and 7ft, 300lbs Valuev ) was worried Foreman knocked all his teeth out and named him the hardest hitter he ever faced during his career.

II) Chuvalo named him as one of the two hardest punchers he has ever faced. He was in the ring with the likes of Williams, Frazier, Durelle, and was widely regarded as a bulletproof, exceptionally granite chin.

III) He is consistently listed as one of the hardest punchers in the history of the sport.

IV) Wepner said Foreman hit him so hard his orbital bone broke and part of it was sticking out quarter of an inch.

V) Moorer reportedly having 36 stitches inside his mouth and a broken mouthpiece according to Teddy Atlas, both result of being hit with a blow casual enough that people around the world actually suspected a dive.

You could go on and on, making an argument for both fighters, but I am of opinion that there is certain level when punchers become murderous, and you can only reasonably argue how well they applied said power, while arguing about individual punch may become futile. It's especially easy to highball or poke holes in every individual case: Shavers had numerous accolades and extremely high praises, but one can point out that his most notable knockout streak were against small men. Zhang is a monstrous, hard punching fighter who derailed the Joe Joyce hypetrain, but Juggernaut is also exceedingly easy to hit, and Zhang failed to stop Hrgovic, Rudenko (both great chins) and some of his opponents early on in his career. And so on, and so on.
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Fantastic post.

rinsj · Sep 30, 2023

SergioJ91 said: ↑

Yes. He’s bigger and stronger…Zhang would’ve destroyed Foreman, Ali and Frazier in my opinion.
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No, no...just NO

MixedMartialLaw · Sep 30, 2023

There's an article that argues Foreman's power was overrated to perception:

But was Foreman really that devastating a puncher? Muhammad Ali, for one, didn’t think so. Clearly, George had power, but do not think that he belongs to some transcendent trinity alongside Tyson and Shavers as the biggest punchers the sport has ever seen. Watch his fights against Luis Pires, Scott LeDoux, Dino Denis, or Wepner, and you’re going to see his opponent take shot, after shot, after shot, before finally falling, if they even fall. And many of the boxers Foreman dropped, Frazier most famously, would keep beating the count until the ref interceded. Rarely did the Foreman opponent come away from the bout completely broken, notwithstanding the highlight reel knockout of Cooney, who was, as I noted, already broken when he entered the ring that night.

I think Foreman was the better boxer, had no doubt the better career than Zhang but I don't think it's sacrilege to view Zhang as being a more powerful 1 to 1 puncher. As the above argues George wasn't necessarily one shotting his mostly smaller opponents, let alone 280+ thick skulled men.

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doez Zhang hit harder than George Foreman ?

Who hits harder ?

Zhang

Foreman

Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

rinsj Active Member Full Member

MixedMartialLaw Combat sports enthusiast Full Member

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doez Zhang hit harder than George Foreman ?

Who hits harder ?

Zhang

Foreman

Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

rinsj Active Member Full Member

MixedMartialLaw Combat sports enthusiast Full Member