Don't fight the best in your division, move up & fight a shot fighter & you're P4P#1!

Silvermags · Nov 16, 2008

Decebal said:

No...they're not!atsch
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Nice AVATAR you got there?!

Kindly ask hatton how does the canvass taste like when he fought pbf?! ok!

No worries, PAC will run after him in case he wins over DLH...

WIN OR LOSE PAC has more GUTS than HATTON coz HATTON refused to fight DLH! :happy :good :happy

puga_ni_nana · Nov 16, 2008

BigBone said:

Once PacMan was a flyweight, yes, at 17. But for Chrissakes, DLH was a little guy at 17 as well! Floyd Mayweather was a flyweight at 17, just he didn't fight at the pros at the time, unlike PacMan. Now what?

It's not that Calderon or Montiel moving up - at their current age, they are still fighting at a low weight class. Others, like Floyd or DLH or PacMan, grew and grew constantly. At his age, in 2008, Manny Pacquiao weighs 146 pounds fight night, and not 112. Floyd Mayweather, a former flyweight at 17, fought and beat a past-prime DLH at 154. Credit to him, that's even bigger difference in weight, just the achievement is split to amateur and pro years. And DLH had a world title back then and looked great in his last outing vs. Mayorga. Still not the superb credit of beating a prime LMW in DLH.

A year and a half later, vs. Forbes, DLH looked much older, the feather-fisted guy busted up his face, he doesn't hold a title anymore, nor he's ranked. It's not even the same! Beating him would still be a fantastic achievement, but you have to agree: Pac is after the money (he truly deserves) and not the glory (he's already a PRIME HOF-er, and ATG, regardless of this fight). If he was after the glory, he would've fought the guy equal Hopkins to De La Hoya. Oscar De La Hoya, a FW at 17, fought Hopkins, an actual P4P-er, a LHW champion at a time, the division's best. He didn't fought an old, unranked MW, who once was a great fighter. Credit is still there for PacMan if he pulls this one off... but you have to agree: it's not the same...

Go Pacquiao!
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ok, if you still doesn't get the size difference between pacquiao and delahoya, i'll explain it to you. just five years ago, pacquiao is still fighting at 122. he looks smaller compared to barrera and jmm that time. at the same time, hoya was already fighting at 154 for two years already. now if you'll look at it at age perspective, hoya at 28 years of age is fighting at 147 with 3 divisions jump. pacman at age 28 is fighting at 130 with 4 divisons jump (technically 6 if you'll include 115 and 118 ).

now about the credit pac will deserve if did pull the feat, hoya just pulled a SD loss to the former p4p#1 in floyd while pac is fighting at 130. a shot fighter would not do that to floyd. forbes busting up hoyas face is not indicative of how oscar controlled that fight just as much as it's not an indication when jmm's face looks terrible after his match with barrera. though i agree with you that oscar could have pulled the bigger win if he did upset hopkins that time.

PanchoVilla · Nov 16, 2008

harper said:

a very early excuse

pacterons are really scared and wetting their panties now :yep :yep
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Obvious TRUTH!! :yep

DINAMITA · Nov 16, 2008

BigBone said:

24/7 hasn't started yet, and boxing fans are beginning to buy this utter **** called as "The Dream Match"... According to many, Manny Pacquiao is fighting for a clear and undisputable P4P#1 status and Fight of the Year recognition vs. the monsterous, King Kong-sized and untouchable Oscar De La Hoya - how can the little Bruce Lee overcome the huge difference and beat the big bad T-Rex?

In reality, instead of fighting for REAL recognition in his own division vs. Nate Campbell (WBA, IBF, WBO world champion) or Juan Manuel Marquez (lineal, The Ring world champion), Pacquaio is fighting a money bag, a brand named Golden Boy, an over-the-hill fighter in a non-title fight.

It's quite funny that people couldn't care less that Manny Pacquaio was a WELTERWEIGHT last time fight night, weighed 146 pounds and will have to make 147 for DLH - they see this 'transformation' as an absolutely unhuman achievement - especially considering the superb and fresh welterweight waiting for him in the ring.

But this is absolutely wrong. There's no recognition in this fight for either fighter. This match-up is so absurd that people believe a PacMan win would mean something worth the cover of the big history book... well, guys, this is a

HORRIBLE FAIL!

A very easy comparison to understand how this works: PacMan might beat DLH, but would Manny Pacquiao beat Antonio 'Tony' Margarito as well?

You see?

I'd give absolutely the whole recognition exist if he'd beat Margarito, a prime, natural welterweight, the reigning WW king. And you know what? The same recogniton for beating Paul Williams. But would you put money even on PacMan beating 2 Margarito victims, Miguel Cotto or Joshua Clottey?

You see: moving up in weight and beat the slowest HW out there in Ruiz is not the same as beating Lennox Lewis. But at least John Ruiz was a belt holder, and Roy Jones did the magic. Paul Williams has just moved up and fought a decent fighter at MW. But other than DLH's The Ring, no one else gave a **** to recognize the move as something ultimately fantastic and P4P worthy, despite victim Andy Kolle being ranked and 10 years younger to DLH. No recognition for something that simply can't offer any kind of recognition.

At 147, Oscar De La Hoya neither is a champion, nor is he ranked even by the magazine he owns and trains with the logo on his sweater.

So, before the visually stunning, insight, very interesting and adrenalin-pumping 24/7 series kick off, ask again:

Outside of the huge money and 'name' event recongnition: what would you give more real, boxing recognition for: PacMan fighting Juan Manuel Marquez or Nate Campbell for the true LW championship, or fighting a seriously over-the-hill fighter in a non-title fight, at the weight class Pac usually fights fight night?

The answer is simple: this is quite an interesting name and money fight to catch the non-hardcore fans attention. But other than that, there's absolutely nothing to gain from a boxing or historical perspective.

Manny Pacquaio is not fighting Antonio Margarito. He's fighting a brand that left the ring vs. a feather-fisted, Pacquiao-sized opponent looking like this:

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BigBone · Nov 16, 2008

You guys must see the whole world black and white, *******, Pacteron, hugger, hater etc.

"Dear Diary, I had a ******* day today"
"Today it was a pacteron"

If you read my posts, I give all the credit to the incredible fighter in PacMan for his great achievements. And will give credit for future achievements. But there's little to achieve here... other than millions. The once flyweight is 146 pounds fight night nowadays... DLH is 145 in training camp... and old and over the hill and has no title. Yes, he's taller... just as Caballero is MUCH taller than the opposition, or the Klitschko Sisters, or Valuev or Paul Williams. But in weight, there's not a huge difference anymore, I expect PacMan to be around 152-3 fight night, DLH 156-7. Pac usually outweighed opposition more. It's not the same as PacMan would move up to fight an Oscar De La Hoya sized elite WW... DLH is just a name, not the great fighter he once was. Pac's doing it for the money he deserves and he's a great HOF-er already. This fight pretty much irrevelant to his legacy, which is secured. A win would be very good, and a possible win over Hatton or Floyd would mean much more, so he needs this win. So there's much to gain for the future, but this circus show alone offers little historical goals to gain... same for DLH, who's an idiot if he thinks he'll be P4P#1 or even 10 if he wins...

PH|LLA · Nov 16, 2008

BigBone said:

Once PacMan was a flyweight, yes, at 17. But for Chrissakes, DLH was a little guy at 17 as well! Floyd Mayweather was a flyweight at 17, just he didn't fight at the pros at the time, unlike PacMan. Now what?

It's not that Calderon or Montiel moving up - at their current age, they are still fighting at a low weight class. Others, like Floyd or DLH or PacMan, grew and grew constantly. At his age, in 2008, Manny Pacquiao weighs 146 pounds fight night, and not 112. Floyd Mayweather, a former flyweight at 17, fought and beat a past-prime DLH at 154. Credit to him, that's even bigger difference in weight, just the achievement is split to amateur and pro years. And DLH had a world title back then and looked great in his last outing vs. Mayorga. Still not the superb credit of beating a prime LMW in DLH.

A year and a half later, vs. Forbes, DLH looked much older, the feather-fisted guy busted up his face, he doesn't hold a title anymore, nor he's ranked. It's not even the same! Beating him would still be a fantastic achievement, but you have to agree: Pac is after the money (he truly deserves) and not the glory (he's already a PRIME HOF-er, and ATG, regardless of this fight). If he was after the glory, he would've fought the guy equal Hopkins to De La Hoya. Oscar De La Hoya, a FW at 17, fought Hopkins, an actual P4P-er, a LHW champion at a time, the division's best. He didn't fought an old, unranked MW, who once was a great fighter. Credit is still there for PacMan if he pulls this one off... but you have to agree: it's not the same...

Go Pacquiao!
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how can you give PBF lots of credit for beating shot Oscar and then NOT give Pacquiao credit for beating a shot Oscar? You lost me there. At least vs Pac, Oscar will not have been inactive for 12 months.

Oscar has been shot since 2004, when he looked all pudgy and lost to Felix Sturm.

Beating a past it Ricardo Mayorga does not change that.

BigBone · Nov 16, 2008

Pharaoh said:

how can you give PBF lots of credit for beating shot Oscar and then NOT give Pacquiao credit for beating a shot Oscar? You lost me there. At least vs Pac, Oscar will not have been inactive for 12 months.
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No, no, I give credit for both, just not 'historical amount' of credit if Oscar was a prime WW. He's clearly not, year and a half later he's clearly worse than vs. PBF, therefore other than the credit of beating a much taller, popular man, I can't give credit of beating a PRIME WW, which is the problem of the promotion - as it'll try to sell as PacMan is facing a prime WW... he's not...

dangerousity · Nov 16, 2008

Pharaoh said:

Size in boxing is about weight, not height. Calzaghe is actually taller than Tyson. So is Celestino Caballero. I don't see why you are mentioning their height and then making a Calzaghe vs Tyson comparison

And Barrera was fighting at 122 by the age of 20. JuanMa Lopez turned pro at 22.
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Dont play stupid. You know exactly what im on about, their natural frame/weight size. I can guarantee that by the time JML is on the same stage of his career as MAB is now, he will probably be 130lbs, possibly 135lbs. Their body frame is roughly the same size...hence their starting weights. There is a huge size difference in Pac & Hoya's natural frame, both started very skinny and tall for their weight but Hoya still had a good 30lbs on Pac and in the lower weight, that matters more.

Quite simply, ODLH was 6 weight divisions above Pac on both their starting weights...almost like the minimum weights for their frame. Tyson is 4 weight divisions above Calzaghe. Post prison Tyson was about as past prime as current DLH who took PBF to SD...in short, that comparison of Calzaghe vs Post prison Tyson is a more accurate reference of Pac-DLH than JML-MAB.

ipe · Nov 16, 2008

Just wondering if the TS and others would have the same opinion back then when this fight was just an idea by Larry Merchant. I remember, nobody in ESB gave Pac a chance except maybe PacD. Heck, even with Hatton and Juan Diaz Pac got a low percentage of winning.

BoxingBim · Nov 16, 2008

I honestly get BB's post. He's not talking bout money and pacman not being great. All he's saying is pac doesnt deserve real credit if he beats ODLH. Got it BB! cant you atleast give him 1.5% macho points if he beats (pacfan here... but very slim chance) ODLH.?

Soriano · Nov 16, 2008

BigBone said:

No, no, I give credit for both, just not 'historical amount' of credit if Oscar was a prime WW. He's clearly not, year and a half later he's clearly worse than vs. PBF, therefore other than the credit of beating a much taller, popular man, I can't give credit of beating a PRIME WW, which is the problem of the promotion - as it'll try to sell as PacMan is facing a prime WW... he's not...
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Hating aside, you should at least give credit to Pacman who dared to fight dela Hoya who's two divisions higher. At this point, we will never know how history will judge Pac if ever he beats dela Hoya. But one thing is sure, Pacman will be remembered as an individual who aspired and dreamed the impossible. IMO, that is a gallant feat for a fighter who started in the 108 division. If you can't see that clearly, there must be something wrong w/ you, smallbone. :smoke

angelos · Nov 16, 2008

Foolish. Hoya is not that shot and can still give hell to the current 147 pounders.
The only fighter who was able to stop Hoya is a light Heavy named Bhop. Of course it will be a legend of epic proportion if Pac wins.

BoxingBim · Nov 16, 2008

Soriano said:

Hating aside, you should at least give credit to Pacman who dared to fight dela Hoya who's two divisions higher. At this point, we will never know how history will judge Pac if ever he beats dela Hoya. But one thing is sure, Pacman will be remembered as an individual who aspired and dreamed the impossible. IMO, that is a gallant feat for a fighter who started in the 108 division. If you can't see that clearly, there must be something wrong w/ you, smallbone. :smoke
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Great view man:good

adub215 · Nov 16, 2008

hes doing for the money good for him why do i see these floyd fans like NALLAGE or whatever the **** his name is bitching when they defend floyd for doing the same thing? fighting guys who were not the best but who were offering more money but when pac does it hes getting all types of hate from the same people who defend floyd for doing the same

NALLEGE · Nov 16, 2008

Soriano said:

Hating aside, you should at least give credit to Pacman who dared to fight dela Hoya who's two divisions higher. At this point, we will never know how history will judge Pac if ever he beats dela Hoya. But one thing is sure, Pacman will be remembered as an individual who aspired and dreamed the impossible. IMO, that is a gallant feat for a fighter who started in the 108 division. If you can't see that clearly, there must be something wrong w/ you, smallbone. :smoke
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It is a money fight. It's a respectable fight imo also. Pac beating Dlh will tell fans how bad Dlh has fallen. Dlh winning will tell us Pac was more than likely tooo small. Both are fighting a no win situation. If Pac beat Margarito, that would be legendary, not beating a 35 year old Dlh.

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