Downplayed riddles : Cassius Clay / Muhammad Ali

This is an analysis which goes opponent by opponent over the lesser known facts in the professional career of the self called "The Greatest" :

Tunney Hunsaker , 1st opponent since the beginning of professional career :
Olympic champion Ali jabbed his way to a six round shutout in his professional debut against small town police chief Tunney Hunsaker, whose eyes were nearly swollen shut by the end of this bout. Although Hunsaker was never inducted into the Pro Boxing Hall of Fame, he was later inducted into the Law Enforcement Hall of Fame.

Tony Esperti , 3rd opponent since the beginning of professional career :
Esperti was on his feet and seemingly not too hurt when referee Mike Kaplan stopped it because Esperti "was beginning to bust up around the eyes." (Miami News)

Jimmy Robinson , 4th opponent since the beginning of professional career :
Robinson was a last minute substitute for Willie Gulatt, who failed to appear.


For some more insight on the beginning of his career , see Il Duce's thread :
http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=290216

Sonny Banks , 1962 :
~ Clay was knocked down in the 1st round, Banks was knocked down in the 2nd. ~

Billy Daniels , 1962 :
Daniels got cut in the second round which eventually stopped the fight.

Archie Moore , 1962 :
Archie Wright was 46 years old by the time they fought , it's less relevant than James Toney stopping Holyfield come 2003 , Lewis KOing Tyson come 2002 or better , Tyson's stoppage losses to Kevin McBride & Danny Williams . This is how credible "The Greatest"'s wins over The "Old Mongoose" is . Clay did not do what Charles , Marchegiano and Patterson could not do before him .

Doug Jones , 1963 :
I watched this fight at least 3 times , the first time was on T.V. , and I thought to myself , who is winning the fight , is this the Muhammad Ali everyone regards as the best heavyweight (sometimes fighter) of all time ?
Jones had Ali hurt early in the fight , and chased him from the beginning until the last bell , Ali never hurt Jones as much .

Henry Cooper , 1963 & 1966 :
1) Angelo Dundee , Ali's (then Clay's) trainer cut his glove vs cooper in their first fight in order to buy Ali recovery time after Cooper knocked him down .
2) Cooper's chin was proven as "below granite" , prior and since their first fight , yet it was not why Ali is listed as the winner against him .
3) Yet ali went down and received smelling salts
4) after dundee cut his glove and ali got his smelling salts and glove replaced - Ali won due 2 cuts , against a proven bleeder
5) Is there anything else I need to know or did not mention about the Cooper fights ?
possibly .
At 1966 the story was :
A bad cut over Cooper's left eye forced stoppage.

Sonny Liston , 1964 & 1965 :
Liston's true age is one of the enigmas surrounding these fights .
In their first fight Ali cut Liston like he did with most of his opponents , and fled away from danger like he almost always did .
A dive is sometimes mentioned as one of the explanations to the outcome of their second fight .
​

Floyd Patterson , 1965 & 1972 :
Floyd had a crippled back in their first fight and was 37 years old in the second .

George Chuvalo , 1966 & 1972 :
Ali was hospitalized after their first fight and peed blood .

Ernie Terrell , 1967 :
Ali thumbed Terrell , but failed to stop him nonetheless .

Jerry Quarry , 1970 & 1972 :
Ali won twice due to cuts over another undersized proven cutter/bleeder .

Ken Norton , 1973 (* 2) , 1976 :
Some say Norton deserved the verdicts all 3 times .
he grant's thread about Ali vs. Norton #3 :
http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=78959

George Foreman , 1974 :
A thread dedicated for this fight only :
http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=211663

Jimmy Young , 1976 :
I once read that : " Jimmy Young gave Ali a boxing lesson to end all boxing lessons "

Earnie Shavers , 1977 :
Yet another disputed verdict by the judges

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In my opinion , I believe that immediate rematches with Jones , Cooper , Chuvalo , Terrell , Foreman , Young , Shavers and a 4th match with Norton were much more needed than fighting the likes of Brian London , Karl Mildenberger , Jean Pierre Coopman , Richard Dunn and Alfredo Evangelista .
Yet he found the time to fight Joe Bugner twice , Alvin Lewis , old and worn Zora Folley and Cleveland Williams , etc .

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There is yet to be told about Ali's style of fouling , which some insist to consider as boxing .
Things like holding and hitting behind the head .

Factoid : did you know that Ali received testosterone injections ? like in steroids . But you only see people people call Toney a roider .
//
Enjoy .

 

No claim regarding luck or resemblance to such a claim in my post high above . Keep fast forwarding , like real men/boxing fans do .

 

I like it how d fact that Ali was out on his seat after he got knocked down by Henry Cooper and received extra recovery time and smelling salts passes undetected and ppl think i m trying 2 portray ali as a lucky fighter .
Well there was no luck involved in any of d outcomes above . each outcome had its own reasons that i mentioned in detail and i m quite certain that there is more to tell and know than what i posted . but expect d few who know d truth to keep it concealed forever , since telling d truth is revisionism .
D first post is merely giving d deciding factors in some of his wins that may surprise some .

 

There is a shame about stopping a man on cuts and not rematching him , unless he was given a long and sustained beating in a 1 sided manner prior to it and d cuts were caused by legit punches , although sometimes there is no need for d fight in 1st place , so 1 might b a little less interested in a rematch . Better financial opportunities r legit excuse as well .

Or , going by examples , Lewis didn't beat Vitali as good as Byrd did , 2 me , he didn't beat him at all , just proved that he could last 5 rounds with him . Vitali didn't beat Ross Puritty either , but did better than his brother nonetheless . And Chuvalo did a much better job vs both Jones & Quarry than Ali did . 2 me Patterson did better job vs Quarry , Cooper and probably Chuvalo (unless Patterson-Chuvalo was a top 20 greatest robbery of all time) than Ali did . Foreman outdid Ali vs every1 but Jimmy Young .
Frazier outdid Ali vs Jones and Mathis , but Ali outdid him vs Bonavena (but not vs Foreman) .
Actually d 1 who did d best vs Quarry was Chuvalo and d 1 who did d best vs Chuvalo was Foreman .

It just arises another point : Ali rarely outdid any1 of his peers vs mutual opponents . He just wasn't that good / effective .

 

edit : Sorry , I was confused by Vince Voltage's double post , I was worried about my own post .
edit #2 : it no longer appears as a double post , so I will reply to him using the edit option :

if 2 go by my criteria , then All 3 Norton fights and probably d Young fights and also Frazier #2 , Chuvalo #2 were draws (scoring round by round is bad) , but this is not what bothers me the most in regards to Ali .


What really bothers me the most about his career is the stories (posted in the first post of this thread in short or by links to other threads) behind Cooper #1 , Foreman fights and probably other cases as well that I still don't know enough about .
These are fights , that under usual circumstances and without the cheats and criminal acts , Ali would have lost them in a brutal fashion .

How did his performances vs. Doug Jones & Henry Cooper earned him a title shot , is just 1 of many bright like d sun evidence about d weakness of that era (Patterson's & Liston's era / reign ) which can also be called : the post Marchegiano era .