Ducking, RJJ vs BHops

Sure thats why against Tarver and Pavlik Hopkins was an underdog. Because they sucked. Sure. Taylor was overrated yes but like I said, Hopkins deserved those wins which would have made it 22 defenses at MW something Jones couldnt do in any weight he was in even fighting the total setups he fought and say what you will about Hopkins competition at the very least (and you underrate them greatly) they were professional full time fighters something that a majority of Jones opponents werent. And for the record Jones should have lost that first Tarver fight and everyone knew it which is why there was a rematch which he also lost, there should have been no need for a rubber match which Jones got dominated in. Its funny how Tarver got a faded Jones when he was coming off what many at the time were saying was his career best performance (regardless of the weak opponent and obvious steroids use) Its funny how you ***** about Hopkins calling out and fight smaller guys yet ignore that for almost his entire run at MW he called for a rematch with Jones and never got it. You complain about Simon Brown but right after the fight Hopkins leaned over the ropes and said now lets get this done about a rematch and Jones didnt even blink. If you wanted to make money you had three names within reach: Jones, Trinidad, and DLH. Funny how the smaller guys had the stones to face Hopkins and both lost in dramatic fashion but Jones couldnt muster up the courage. Its also funny how you say Trinidad was divisions past his best weight when at 154 and 160 prior to facing Hopkins he had never looked better. When Hopkins spanked his ass he was suddenly past his best division. Bull****. The fact is that Trinidad was the second best MW in the world at that time and theres no way in hell you can anyone outside of Hopkins at 160 who could have beaten him. Also lets not forget that when Hopkins was calling those guys out he was willing to go down to 156 to fight them. Hell he weighed less than Trinidad for their fight and weighed one pound more than DLH for their fight DLH weighing 155. So dont give me any bull**** that he was picking on these smaller guys because he proved he could go down in weight dramatically and beat guys in a fashion they had never before been beaten. He also beat DLH when DLH had three losses on his record, two of which were highly controversial and one of which was a very close competetive decision loss to P4P best at the time SSM. So dont act like he was fighting these smaller bums especially when you consider that Jones, who was fighting two divisions above Hopkins was calling out the same guys. Lets also not forget that while your bashing Hopkins opponents that he stopped Glen Johnson (who later concussed Jones) for the only time in Johnson's career in the most dominant, one sided loss of Johnson's career... But he was a bum too... or was he just better in his 40s than he was in his 20s? You claim Jones moved up to challenge himself... really? Then where were these challenges? He consistently picked the weakest title holders when moved up from 168 in order to add belts to his collection, not prestige. Nobody considers John Ruiz a true champion. Nobody considered Mike McCallum a true LHW champ so give it a rest. If those fights were important to you then like I said we have a different concept of what words like competition, challenge, and greatness mean. Marvin Hagler never moved up, spent his career making a name by fighting smaller men (and a lot less impressively than Hopkins most times) did he suck too? Because the guys he defended against that were true legitimate MWs arent exactly going to land in any record books or any halls of fame. And if you think guys like Hill, Tate, Griffin, Gonzalez, an old McCallum, Ruiz, Woods, Malinga, and Castro were as good as anyone Hopkins fought then you are ****ing nuts! NUTS! Malinga? Woods? Gonzalez? GTFO! I have got to get ahold of some of that **** you are smoking because its some powerful stuff...

 

No he didn't.He was outworked early in the first one and came on too late.The second fight,maybe.Oh and both fights sucked.

Urban myth.Was James Toney a pro? Virgil Hill? Reggie Johnson? Of course they ****ing were.Too much has been made of the Richard Frazier fight.And it's funny how Julio Gonzalez is a garbage man when Jones beat him but wasn't when he kicked your boy Michelcwezski's arse.

Wrong.De La Hoya had already beaten him and I'd back him against Tito at any weight,likewise Winky Wright.The fact is Trinidad had had a grand total of ONE fight at 160 prior to meeting Hopkins so your claim of him as the second best middleweight in the world is pure assumption.

Well most people I've seen had it 7-5 for Jones (as did I) so it wasn't a robbery.You say there was no need for a rubber match then in the next breath criticize Roy for not giving Hopkins and Toney rematches even though he dominated both men first time round.Why the **** did they deserve rematches then?[/quote]

To face a man he'd already beaten comfortably....yeah right:roll:

Yes,unless I'm missing some hidden talents possessed by Carl Daniels,Morade Hakker and Steve Frank.

 

The bile he spews towards Jones is really something else but the funny thing is he praises Hopkins for doing pretty much the exact same things he slams Jones for doing ie looking for low risk,high reward fights.

It really is a personal thing for Klompton methinks.I mean he gets so worked up he forgets all about putting paragraphs in his posts to break the monotony of his Roy diatribes.Makes it ****ing tough to read though.

 

McClellan was calling out Jones at 160 before he fought Mugabi even. After getting the 160 title, that was the guy Gerald wanted.

Then you had the southpaws Little and Nunn. Little had the amateur victory over Jones as well. We saw later on when Jones fought Tarver that he would've had problems w/ southpaw boxers. The first time Jones fought a guy that was gunning for him was Tarver. And how many years did it take him to get a match with the guy?

Plus, all those europeans that were the best at 168 and 175. What matches did we the boxing fans get instead? Dreary and uncompetitive bouts like Pazienza. All those part time fighters that HBO would dig up as title contenders. Meanwhile, over in Europe all those 168 pounders fought each other. And usually multiple times.

The matches that did not get made have hurt the sport a ton and just look at what money HBO is throwing at fights now. Cause and effect takes 5 to 10 years to show up but it always does show up. Those guys trying to call all the shots to the networks are gone.

 

When exactly did Tarver earn his shot against Jones? Which win earned it him? Was it when he lost to Harding who Jones went onto beat?

Can you provide a source of McClellan calling Jones out?

 

Did you follow boxing back then? That's the only match McClellan wanted. They had that amateur rivalry and Gerald felt it was he that should've been at the olympics and not Roy.

Tarver wanted to fight Jones for a long long time before he finally got the fight. He was the first opponent that had been gunnung for Jones--a motivated opponent--that Jones ever signed to fight. That translates to a lot of matches not made. We, the boxing fans suffer as a result.

 

What,so every fight Jones had prior to Tarver was with an unmotivated guy just there for appearance money??

What a load of rubbish.Tarver had a big mouth and talked a good fight with Jones but he's had a big mouth and talked a good fight with eveybody else he's fought as well.It doesn't mean he was any more motivated than a quiet,determined guy like Reggie Johnson,Montell Griffin or Virgil Hill,it's just that they met Jones at a time he was too good for them to beat.

It's insulting to Jones and the men he fought as fighters to say they weren't there to win and it's a gross generalization to say they were all unmotivated without being able to get inside everyone's head.

 

Yes I have and you clearly weren't, Tarver was calling Jones out for a while, and then lost to his first top 10 ranked opponent he faced in Harding He still hadn't beat a top 10 ranked opponent until 2002. Yet Jones was ducking him for years was he? Your right he should have fought Tarver instead of Harding in 2000 after Harding beat him, that would have been 'good for boxing' and you wouldn't pull Jones up on that 1 I'm sure

Yes I did following boxing back then and I don't remember McClellan calling Jones out and neither have I ever come across anything about it since. They were actually friends. All the same they were planning a fight after McClellan-Benn but obviously that didn't goto plan

 

John Ruiz is probably the most successful heavyweight of the mid 90's onward besides Lennox Lewis (until the Klitschkos came on the scene). As I said, in retrospect, he turned out to be better than expected and had a pretty respectable career. Im not so sure he had a weak chin either. Besides getting stopped by Tua he was pretty durable.

 

Roy was definitely reluctant but there's no doubt about who was pulling the ***** moves in the Jones-Hopkins negotiations: Bernard.

 

Yeah I really never understood his point of view. He was the one who wanted the fight so badly. It would have done a lot more for his career going forward, yet he refused to take 10% less. It didnt make sense, especially considering what his options were going forward. Carl Daniels, and Morrade Hakaar? :blood

 

Definitely.

But I suppose we have to admit, Bernard was a smart man. He knew Roy would have whooped him again but he managed to turn it around into a 'blame Roy' situation, which is about as close to a win as he was going to get against a prime Jones.

Retrospect has made the 60-40 offer look good for Bernard given the horrible demise of Jones and Hopkins' late career achievements, but at the time it was being brokered, there is just no way Hopkins deserved or was going to get more.

Don't think Jones was all too eager to face Hopkins himself, but at that point, the ball was definitely in Bernard's court to force a fight and he didn't want to have anything to do with it.

 

Sure... just like all those other big fights that definately 100% would have happened... and didnt. Jones would have done what he did best: find an excuse NOT to fight the best and hide behind his HBO contract. Ask Floyd, hes doing a great job of what Jones did only hes actually managed to fight better quality fighters.

 

Ill agree Jones never wanted to fight McClellan, but it was because they were too good of friends.
Maybe Mclellan thought differently after he became a member of the Don King gangsta clan.