Dundee or Steward Who was the greater trainer?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Austinboxing, Jun 16, 2022.

  1. FastLeft

    FastLeft Well-Known Member Full Member

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    they both good trainers.
    agree they more known because they talk up very very loud for press & Tv friends & were very on top of the businessman & own gym & connections political. they both managers & tough on business side so they can establish power in boxing profession.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2022
  2. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Stewart and it wasnt even close. Dundee wasnt even really a trainer. He was a glorified spitbucket holder who had connections.
     
  3. PernellSweetPea

    PernellSweetPea Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Stewart. Dundee was great, but sort of a hired motivator.
     
  4. Rubber Glove Sandwich

    Rubber Glove Sandwich Tire Iron Jones was good but he was no Full Member

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    I gotta go with Ray Arcel. The list of greats he has trained is stunning. He even trained this guy from Cincinnati called Ezzard Charles.


    Jokes aside I would pick Steward over Dundee.
     
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  5. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Who was in the other corner and what instructions did he give?

    You can watch Dundee in the corner in tons of fights giving technical/strategic advice — one for instance, Leonard threw 23 right hands in the first round against Benitez and landed zero against ‘El Radar.’ When he came back to the corner he wanted to keep throwing rights (saying ‘but he’s RIGHT THERE’) and Dundee told him to forget the right and concentrate on the left and working the body early in the fight. If you want to act like Dundee didn’t know anything about boxing, I don’t even know where to begin.

    Steward had Thomas Hearns basically from birth and worked him up through the amateurs and to a pro world championship (full credit to him for that) BUT until after the Leonard fight, he never taught him how to hold when hurt. It was a fatal flaw that cost him the biggest fight of his life.

    Steward also was known to make excuses — Hearns overtrained for Leonard … but who was training him? Hearns lost his legs quickly against Hagler (he should have been boxing Marvin, who had more trouble with boxers than sluggers/brawlers) and it’s the fault of Hearns getting leg massages … so obviously Steward knew about these massages since he brought it up, but didn’t stop him from getting them.

    Manny, to his credit, learned as he went. I think he became a better and better trainer.

    For me, I’ll take Dundee in my corner (since that’s specifically the question here, not who would you want to teach you to box — see the OP’s comment in the first post) but they’re both pretty much Mt. Rushmore figures in boxing.

    There’s a reason the very top fighters in the game sought them both out. You might luck into one great fighter but when other top guys keep coming to you, they don’t do that unless they see something that can help them.
     
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  6. Cobra33

    Cobra33 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Steward and its not a debate. He took boxers from the amateur ranks and took them to World titles and he did it MANY times.
    Angelo was no slouch but I think he was more of a motivator/strategy type trainer.
     
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  7. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I totally agree with your premise that Dundee has become quite underrated as a technical and strategic trainer. You simply don't spend the amount of time he did around the people he did and not become extremely knowledgeable. His considerable efforts as a motivator and shrewd cornerman have somewhat overshadowed the fact that he most certainly knows his stuff. Perhaps he didn't promote himself as well gameplan etc wise as guys like Steward, Futch and others. He spent a helluva lot of time studying Hagler in order to be fully across his rhythm and patterns leading into Rays challenge. He certainly did something right in the leadup and in ring action that's for sure.
     
  8. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Basically, every boxer who made the Fifth Street Gym in Miami their home base in the 1950s, 1960s and 1970s when Chris Dundee, his brother, owned it.

    It's like saying who did Freddie Roach build and train out of all the fighters who have used the Wild Card gym as their home base.

    Dundee was there every day for decades. The list of fighters he worked with is a long one, from Basilio, Ali, Ellis, Rodrigues, Pastrano, Tillis, The list of guys he worked with who never became champions is endless, too.

    It's a gym. Tons of people use it.
     
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  9. Journeyman92

    Journeyman92 Resident Gadfly Full Member

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    I don't know every circumstance. Ali I know he did very little to anything with in terms of boxing and Carmen? He wrapped Carmen's hands nicely. I don't believe he built any of those guys you listed. I am sure he worked with many folks but when you're asking who was better X or Y and X has built legends from the ground up you have to ask the same of Y.