Dundees, Ali and the Liston dives

I like your posts ,allways interesting,and often intruiging.This one? Well it's a can of worms,Grassy Knoll, syndrome ,will we ever know the truth ? Probably not.

 

Some people believe it, but i don't buy it. If you watch the film, you'll see Liston throw dynamite left hooks, some of the hardest he'd ever thrown, and miss just by an inch because of Clay's inhuman speed.... he also lands one, i think in the 4th. If you consider that Clay, at that time, was nearly knocked out by Cooper and down by Banks, NO ONE would take the chance of him taking a Liston left hook to make it appear "real". That's not even to mention how aggressive he follows Clay around the ring, how he tries to blind them, followed by the aggressiveness there, and only when that didn't work either, he quit.

 

. Why even repeat something like this. Yea OK you on East Side Boxing knows this but no major news outlets have come up with it. This is why the internet is scary. I will bet anything that now some people on this board will believe it and pass it on, and then more people will quote it as fact.
If you ever saw the first Ali vs Liston fight, there is no doubt that it was on the level.

 

We know the truth in the JFK assasination. Oswald did it. Rumors,wild speculation, and money making books and movies don't change the fact there.

 

Liston was just plain past his prime and very rusty which is why he got beat up in the first Ali fight(although the scorecards were even)..people dont realize liston was anywhere from 32-34 years of age at the time and had boxed just 8 rounds in the past 3 years..He quit on his stool with a confirmed Xrayed shoulder injury...but at least he quit on his stool while he was getting his ass kicked, rather than well ahead on points with 3 rounds to go like vitali did.

Liston without question took a dive in the 2nd ali fight. That punch barely landed, not enough force to knock steel chin liston down. anchor punch my ass.

 

There is a book called the Devil and Sonny Liston" It is decent and makes points to support this idea: the 2nd fight was fixed and Sonny really was awesome and would have beat Ali.

It would make more sense IF Ali didn't beat all the other great fighters he beat. Check it out if you are interested, though. Interesting read:

http://www.amazon.com/Devil-Sonny-L...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1241978701&sr=8-1

 

Back and to the left.

 

To be honest i don't think he ever beats Ali

 

I think he definetly took a dive in the second fight but not in the first.

 

Tosches does not support his contention that the first bout was fixed. At first read, it seems compelling when couched in the context that includes the second flim-flam. Take another look at it and you'll see that he does not have an answer for Liston's obvious effort (even going to the point of cheating which is more credible than his throwing the fight), nor does he have an answer for the beating Liston took.

I am convinced that Liston underestimated Clay, who was anything but feared at this point, and barely trained. After he slapped him across his fresh mouth in the Thunderbird and Clay practically whined about it, Liston walked away saying "now I own that punk." So he trained for the 2 or 3 rounds he figured it would take him to demolish the kid.

 

well yeah but the thing of jack ruby just dieing a month after killing oswald always amazes me.

as some say i seems so perfect and neat. assasin kills target assasin gets taken out by shady nightclub owner:huh who in turn passes away naturally not long after.


anyways anyways



liston clearly looked to walk clay down. remember this clay guy was a kinda....paulie malignaggi at this point of his career. very flashy but still an unknown quantity. he had been knocked down 2 times, by good fighters but still opponents who are very much underneath liston in terms of power and ability. also there is nothing to suggest how much heart, conditoning and chin that ali had.

i think liston didnt train enough and it cost him. he did have a problem with his shoulder i feel. he had a few cuts on his face and swelling that was really troubling. was starting to really get set back behind on points. so duran'd out of it.

gotthe rematch which was kinda on the cards. and he got caught early on

 

this post is pretty much what i've always believed.apart from listons age which i'd heard was about 36 or 37.if you look at his final fight ,he looked about 50 but was maybe mid 40's.

i couldn't see him ever beating ali though

 

Wrong..Foward, then back and to the left.. Its called physics. The 21 patholigists on the boards that looked at it didn't have a problem saying JFK was shot from behind, but amatuers and conspiracy authors think they have it figured out.