Duràn(Moore beatdown) vs McCallum (super welterweight)

What do you mean by head case? I’ve read people who were in the industry a LONG time talk nothing but praise for McCallum in the gym.

 

I'm not going to waste my time.

 

Never doubted Mannion was tough because he certainly was but Mike could have closed that show especially considering it was a 15 fight.
Emanuel Steward was begging for Mike to press the issue.
If you are not a main draw for whatever reason even if you are super skilled like Mike was you have two choices: win in spectacular fashion where the fans WANT to see you or take on a marquee name for less money willing to gamble that you will emerge the winner in order to open the doors for bigger opportunities.
Mike unfortunately didn't do that.
And this not an,attempt to say Mike was not talented or Mike was overrated because he certainly was vastly talented and deserves every bit of the hype he gets.
But this whole entire notion of blaming EVERYONE for not getting a shot at the big names is as much his fault as it was theirs.

 

He would argue with managers and trainers about almost everything to the point it was a complete headache trying to keep him happy.
Point in case : Mike's team was trying to get him exposure to the fans and had actually been offered a date for Mike to take on Sugar Ray Seales who was a middleweight.
Now no disrespect to Seales but at his very best he would literally be no match for Mike middleweight or not because Mike was so much above Seales in talent.
Well his team told him of the fight that its going to be on one of the main networks and who against and supposedly Mike got upset and declined the fight citing Seales was a middleweight and the more the team tried to convince Mike to take the fight the more Mike became agitated.
The team explained to Mike that this was the only fight this particular network was offering for Mike and if he declined it he wouldn't get any fight. Mike said fine so his team declined the fight.
Mike then jumped ship saying that his previous management couldn't get him any fights.

 

McCallum points in a close one. . At 160, he losses to Hagler. More like 50 -50 at 154 vs Hearns and SRL give or take, imo.
Dont think they ducked Mike. Unfortunately for McCallum he was the modern Day Charley Burley, He couldn't draw flies. Mike was making like 10 grand for fights at times. Of course he was bitter as hell for it and made it known. The others were just making so much more money fighting each other that Mike was left holding the shortest straw. Burley at least understood why SRR never fought him, there was no money in it. Risk Reward same problem McCallum had

 

You are talking more about promoters which I agree with. He was a difficult guy to promote because ge didn't have a ton of crossover appeal. He worked with hall of fame trainers his entire career. Manny, Duva, Benton and of course Futch.

Regarding Duran, he was no doubt the best lightweight ever but he was not destroying guys at Junior middleweight and above with the exception of Davey Moore. McCallum was never knocked out in his entire 20 year career and rarely hurt. He fought all the way up to cruiserweight and was knocked down only one (I think).

 

I never said Hagler ducked him. Hagler was looking for paydays from 85' on because ge was criminally under paid his in his earlier career. He only made good money fighting the fab four guys and I don't blame him for that. Of course McCallum wanted to fight him but why would Hagler fight him over Leonard? He stood to make far more money against Leonard because again, McCallum wasn't as marketable with the GENERAL public.

Regarding your 20 year comment. I'm talking about my personal boxing experience from the 80's. The whole gym I belonged to would watch all of the fights and McCallum was always an event just like it was to watch the fab four. It's no different today when every true boxing fan watched Navverette vs Valdez this weekend but the general public could give a **** less.

 

Trainers loved him, promoters never could market him so ge would jump ship on them. He stopped working with Manny Steward because he was jealous of Hearns making more money which he did because Hearns was an American and had all of the inner cities in love with him. Same with Main Events and the Duva family. They simply could not get him paydays because he was a Jamaican and didn't have a following in the US. And truth be told, he was bad on the mic. Duran and Hagler had a menace to them. Ray was the white hat and Hearns had the ghetto. You have to remember in the 80's boxing was big in the inner cities. Nearly every big city had multiple city funded boxing gyms which is how I became a fighter.

Nowadays, those gyms are almost all closed and have been replaced with private gyms (mostly MMA) that cost $100 a month or more. Inner city kids have turned to basketball or football instead.

 

I never had your comments in mind when i made the post? All good.

Plenty of people swallowed the Hagler ducked him intermittently in recent years but were corrected by some of us. It comes up time to time.

McCallum didn't have a single win of serious note until he beat Curry in July 87 - at 154. His next fight was against Kalambay in early 88 and he lost. Hagler's last fight ever was April 87 which was before McCallum had his first big win. McCallum was never on Hagler's radar nor did he deserve to be given the timelines. It simply wasn't a thing.

My 20 year comment was strictly talking about in here. He wasn't considered near as highly 20 years ago in here, tho he was certainly respected. He's got old school schools and was very tough. He was underrated for a time as his career developed but that was because he was underwhelming and didn't have any runs on the board. His resume is almost built more on his exploits from 1989 forward, than prior, quality wise. His fights with Toney actually get him the most mileage IMO.

 

Thanks for the breakdown AS, your last paragraph is very true and very prevalent everywhere I’ve read and seen with few exceptions sadly… it seems like the old guys finally got it right when they said “There’s no good trainers/gyms left” we’ve heard it said I think since about the 40s at the earliest (that I’ve read)… Corbett said it, but he’s a prickly guy… it sort of (not really lol) make senses from there perspective to see things trending down as I’m pretty sure boxing was at its biggest in the 20s? The flame has sorta dwindled out all that’s left (mostly) are gyms that are forced to do group fitness classes to keep the lights on.

 

I agree with you. The irony is what I love about Hagler is what I love about McCallum. Look at 77' to 83' on Hagler's record. Beating Willie Monroe, Bennie Brisco in Philly, beating Minter in London. That's when Hagler was ****ing Hagler. I could care less about him beating Duran. Duran wasn't the same guy at 160. He just wasn't. Late 70's early 80's Hagler was what folks should watch. Same with McCallum, he was a true champion and fought tough/difficult guys in their backyard just like Hagler did.

I guess that's my whole point in this thread. Duran is the greatest lightweight that I ever saw but he was limited at 154 and above. His power wasn't the same and he was slower. His name and matchmaking got him a perfect situation against Moore which was still a great win but not the end all be all win it's portrayed as. Just like today, Canelo has a belt at 168 but everyone that knows boxing knows he is avoiding Benavidez.

 

Oh I'm talking about a TRAINER that told that story.
I don't doubt Mikes chin after all he boxed out of KRONK for awhile so if he had a bad chin it would have surfaced.
But to say Duran does not possess the power to hurt Mike would be foolish to say because while Duran certainly did not have the power at Jr middle that he had at lightweight at his best Duran was still a dangerous fighter.
I do not doubt the talent Mike had but rather who was to blame for Mike not getting the big fights.
And where I can see that in certain situations Mike was avoided because of the risk to reward ratio I can also see people not wanting to bother with a boxer pricing himself out of fights too.

 

It's funny how this sport changes through the years. Bert Sugar use to right about it all the time. The 20's and 30's were loaded with Irish, Italian and Jewish immigrants that fought to stay alive and feed their families. Then there was a bug shift towards inner city fighters that learned in city funded gyms for the poor. Kronk in Detroit, 12th and Park in St Louis etc. For the last 20 years or so since the Soviet Union fell, we are seeing a surge in Eastern European fighters that are great! Boxing is always evolving and changing. Too me, it always starts with a strong national amateur program. The US simply doesn't have one anymore but the Ukraine and Cuba are still producing extremely good, technical fighters.

 

Whilst McCallum had a good chin it's not like he couldn't be seriously hurt with one shot Curry badly hurt McCallum and almost floored him with one punch.

Toney more than likely would've stopped McCallum in their 1st fight had that fight been a minute longer.

Duran put down a huge guy like Barkley turning the fight around with one right hand.

So I agree Duran could definitely hurt McCallum if he catches him with a solid right hand counter.