Duràn(Moore beatdown) vs McCallum (super welterweight)

See I don't understand this logic yes Hearns was a bigger name than McCallum but he was also a much more dangerous opponent for Duran in regards to a H2H threat.

So I don't see how taking on a better fighter and a more dangerous opponent can be classed as a duck to be quite honest.

You're talking about a fighter that moved up to Middleweight and fought a prime Marvin Hagler, and then right after fought a prime Tommy Hearns at his best weight who is probably the worst stylistic match up for Duran out of any fighter in history.

I find it bizarre that with all the facts above we are to believe Duran ducked a green McCallum who was at that time fighting the likes of Hasim Razzaq, Manuel Jimenez, Jose Vallejo, Tony Suero, who ? i doubt any of those fights made Duran lose any sleep.

It's a myth that the fab 4 ducked McCallum he moved up to Middleweight in 1988 when Hagler was already retired. In his first fight at Middleweight he got absolutely schooled by Kalambay winning at most 2 or 3 rounds which set him back considerably so he didn't really do himself any favours.

If anything during the late 80s Kalambay was probably more deserving of a big fight against one of the fab 4 he beat McCallum, Barkley, easily and outpointed and almost knocked out Graham in the last round of their 1st fight.

 

I don't know what it's been like recently, but he did have a strong reputation online already in the '00s, imo, at least among classic sections and the like. All of the narratives around the fab four and on him being an unfairly treated/unlucky Burley type of the era were well in place and argued about back then on here too. especially as guys like Leonard and Duran always had their fanatical detractors/supporters who will latch onto anything to draw them down/defend them.

 

Bottom line, McCallum should have fought at middleweight from the start if he wanted a shot at Hagler. He made it harder on himself by cutting down to 154 without being an established name. The timing would still have been tight and quite possible he doesn't get it anyway, like what happened to Herol Graham's time as number one contender circa 86, but on the other hand, with a better sense of what fights to take that were on offer that could have been him in there instead of John Mugabi.

 

I didn’t call it a duck, I called it a better business decision, boxing is a business and what I meant by that is that McCallum only had the chance I believe to fight Duran of the FAB4.
if I recall the situation properly Manny had promised McCallum the Duran fight or something but ended up giving it to Tommy because it was worth a lot more and that soured there relationship. So no it wasn’t a duck hence why I said as much.

 

McCollum, a monster jump from Moore

 

Yeah Hagler on the way up and in his early title days was brutally impressive. He could certainly still fight around the time of Duran and a little after as well tho and was damn tough to beat. I agree beating guys in their backyard is commendable to say the least.

For me Duran was still a very good 154'er when motivated. I haven't seen too many get carried away over the Moore win but yes, it's a good win.

 

McCallum had a strong rep back then yes, but were some calling him the greatest H2H middleweight of all time? I don't remember it. From memory quite a few in recent history favor him over Hagler. I don't recall any serious poster favoring him over Marvin back then.

 

The thing is the Moore win was still by far better than any win McCallum had at that point in his career and I think that's where people are missing the point here.

Duran would've been a huge step up in class for McCallum at that point in his career and I'm not sure he was quite ready for Duran as I don't think he'd peaked yet.

 

The Hearns fight though was a far bigger risk because Hearns presented a bigger challenge not just being a bigger name money wise. It's not like for example Duran fought a bigger name which was a more winnable fight for him in a H2H sense.

For example let's change history and say Duran fought McCallum instead of Hearns would Duran not fighting Hearns be considered a duck ? That's what I mean fans are so fickle.

 

What are you on about? I didn’t insinuate he ducked anyone… I literally said that in BOTH posts… It was better business (MONEY) to fight Hearns end of - that’s what happened isn’t it? he made the right call and fought Hearns when he was “meant” to or at least slotted in to defend against McCallum.
It was a good choice, he made a lot of money but no… “see you’re a fickle boxing fan acknowledging that a fighter chose money in prize fighting.” McCallum was all risk no reward so he fought Hearns… what’s so complicated here for you?

 

Fair post.

 

I wasn't on about you per se when I meant fans I just meant in general fans are very fickle. It just seems to me there's been quite a big myth regarding the fab 4 avoiding McCallum over the years and it's simply not true.

Realistically the only fight that could've happened was the Duran fight and as we've discussed Duran took on a bigger challenge and a bigger name.

If McCallum had done better in his Middleweight debut maybe he could've got a fight vs the fab 4 but he got schooled by Kalambay and that set him back awhile.

As I said before I think Kalambay has more of an argument to be deserving of a shot against the fab 4 his run in the late 80s was pretty impressive. But yet he isn't talked about ever in regards to the fab 4 it's always McCallum which is a bit baffling to me.

 

the greatest h2h middle? nah, i don't remember anything like that, you've definitely got me there.

I vaguely remember the odd pick of him over Hagler, but not many at all, or if it was from regular posters; it might have just been some folk saying they think it could be very close, tbf. It was more Hearns, Duran and SRL where he had a decent chunk of supporters.

 

McCallum vs Moore would have been a very good, competitive fight too, circa late 82/83, pre-Duran fight, imo. Mike would win, but that wouldn't be an easy fight either, especially if he gives the sort of performance he did against Mannion.

Seems like, over the years, the focus on him as a Duran marquee win makes it tough to talk about him as a fighter online without it getting dragged into back and forths centered on Roberto and if Moore's being hyped/denigrated to suite one side or not.

The guy was a ****in' talented boxer-puncher and didn't get that early focus on him for nothing. The main difference between him and McCallum at this time was Moore needed more work on the defensive side, but offensively (punch variety, quality of single shots, accuracy, workrate) there wasn't much between them at that point. davey deserved better in terms of management/support.