Duran as a Welterweight

I agree.
Though Duran didn't stay at welterweight very long he beat two fighters better than anyone he fought at lightweight.
And he looked good at the weight , it fit him like a glove. He wasn't starving himself to get down to lightweight as he was doing.
It's a shame he didn't have the discipline to remain at welterweight.
He may have had a great run there.
After Leonard retired, Hearns and Benitez went up a weight class who beats him?
Curry ? McCory? Honeyghan? Starling ? I'd love a focused Duran's chances against them.
Besides,,,,, some are claiming Usyk is the greatest heavyweight in history after only six pro fights at the weight fighting Mary and her five sisters.
Duran had about nine fights at welterweight ( Off memory) beating the 2nd best welterweight in history ( Leonard) and one who should be seen as a top twenty welter (Palomino)
Those two fights alone demonstrated how truly formidable he was at that weight.

 

Maybe Duran could have stayed at welterweight longer building a richer legacy, but I think he was always going to have problems to make the weight because his natural body size, age and his less than disciplined ways.

IIRC after Montreal, Duran partied hard and put a lot of weight, some internet sources say he balooned up to 200 pounds!!. He had serious problems to make the weight for the rematch and drained himself silly. It seems the strains Duran subjected his body back then were one main factor explaining the "No mas" embarrasment.

 

He should be ranked high and I think had he continued at this weight he would have been just as great as it lightweight. He would have held the weight well.

 

He does lose a lot via his loss to Leonard too, perhaps the most notorious in history. Excuses or not he had his greatest ever victory just months before.

He's an enigma to rate really. I'd say somewhere from 20-30. H2H he'd be higher obviously.

 

Depends how you rank someone. I go only on career accolades, & Welter is very, very deep historically. Sure, Duran is a handful for virtually any Welter in history on his day, but far too many men accomplished far too much at the weight for him to enter the discussion IMO.

 

Agreed John, depending on your criteria, enigma is a good word.

I only consider fights contested at that weight (allowing a few lbs over, for over-the-weight non-title fights) when ranking fighters in specific weight divisions.

Duran's record in fights contested in the weight range I consider as WW, is 7-1. He holds arguably the finest victory in WW history over SRL & another fine, fine victory of Carlos Palomino. Then there's the loss to SRL & not a lot else.

Applying balance best I can, I rank Roberto at #21 at WW, purely based on fights contested in that weight range.

As an example, my #20 is Curtis Cokes, who was prime barely more than a decade prior to Duran, so they just about competed close enough to each other for a direct H2H comparison to be a fair one. There's little doubt in my mind that the best WW Duran beats Cokes & is the better WW, his best win is better than that of Curtis's, but with a record at the weight of 48-10-3, 6 x successful defences of the lineal WW title & wins of LMR x 2, Ramon La Cruz, Manuel Gonzalez (4-1), Jean Josselin x 2, Francois Pavilla (1-0-1), Willie Ludick & Stan Harrington, on balance I've just got Cokes pipping Duran to the final spot in my all top 20 greatest WWs.

Using my criteria, great fighters who made relatively short stops in a weight division, are often the most difficult to rank. How to rank RJJ at MW? Sam Langford at LHW? etc. Duran at WW falls into this category to an extent, imo.

 

Hi Buddy.
I agree he should be ranked high as a WW, as to how high, I will throw my lot in with @Greg Price99 there is not much he gets wrong when it comes to rankings, well in my eyes at least, as to him being just as great mmmm... not sure I am on board with that, I lived all through the Duran LW years, from Benny Heuarts to his last fight at the weight, and believe me he was something to behold, the lithe, slim, honed Duran of the Lampkin fight in particular, was a frightening spectacle , he had grown his dark satanic hair by then, what with this and the jet black beginnings of a beard, he looked like Manson in shorts, of all the spiteful, snarling, fighters down the ages, and there have been many, Duran at this stage of his career stands alone, if ever a man was born to fight ( mugging soldiers on the panama canal at 15 ) he was that man, keep all your Dempseys, Tysons, choir boys compared to hands of stone.
stay safe PSP, chat soon.

 

I always felt Palomino was underrated. He beat two of the best welters of the 70s coming up from 135.

 

He was one of only two guys to ever deck Palomino, and the only one to do it after the slow starting Carlos warmed up. Armando Muniz bulled him over in the opening round of their first bout with a left hook for a flash KD.

Montreal cements Duran as the P4P best since WW Robinson, where the smaller, older man beat the bigger and younger one. In 1980, he would've crushed Hearns in a WW unification before SRL II, but properly opted for the $8,000,000 tax free payoff. Janks Morton in SRL's camp did not believe Ray could defeat an in shape El Cholo in a rematch, but after Roberto made weight, he pigged out. We don't know what might have happened if the weigh-in was ringside, or if food wasn't a priority. (SRL wisely arrived in camp, always below the weight limit he'd be competing at.

Duran of Montreal defeats SRL of NOLA in a rematch. Ray actually fought Duran in Montreal as he always fought. Their second bout was anomalous for SRL.

 

Ray went for a run in the streets of New Orleans on the morning of the fight before the weigh-in and came in at the same weight as Duran, which suggests Ray was probably a shade over 147 prompting the run.

 

Ray was always in nothing less than top condition until his defeats to Norris and Camacho (who were both faster). Only Duran beat him during SRL's peak.

 

Had Duran stayed he would have had a great legacy at welterweight.. A great fight would have been the one missed at 140 with Pryor, but better to have had the Leonard fights and Duran becoming a fab 4 than fighting Pryor, which would have chagned the timetable of the later fights with Hagler, Hearns, Leonard and Benitez.

 

Agree with virtually everything you said Greg.