Duran explains why he quit (April 1981 Ring interview)

Leonard did lots of moving in the first few rounds, and he used his reach throughout. He tried to keep Duran at the end of his jab, he didn't look happy about being pushed against the ropes all night. That wasn't the plan.

He certainly was sitting on his punches because they wanted Duran's respect, but hardly that uncharacteristic. Leonard was a dynamic fighter, who did many things, and for 15 rounds against Duran, he tries lots of things.

 

then lets add Hearns and Dewitt, Medal. We are talking about elites here. Guys who could fight in any era. The guys Duran fought at lightweight would not be exceptional in other eras. Duran's only win over and elite is Ray Leonard,, and Cuevas, who was washed up at that point. But he gets the win.

 

I am sure other fighters have excuses for losses, but it really should not matter. You lose in the ring, that is part of greatness. Preparation. Someone does not prepare and loses and somehow it is because he did not train. This is what I mean by Duran being overrated. That is part of it.

 

Ray's fight was to fight with speed hit and not get hit. You know what I mean. And the fact Ray won the rematch and rubbermatch shows how Ray would have always won once he fought to hit and not get hit, since he was faster than Duran and had good leg speed also.

 

then Duran cannot be rated in the ATG list because if he has an excuse for losing to the greats, either you rate him for losing to the greats and whom he fought in loses, or you have to rate him by his lightweight reign, which is void of elites-which wins over (elites) are in my mind required for ATG status.

 

They were exceptional in their own era which is the fact of the matter. How you feel they would do in other eras is irrelevant. Fights don't get made, because fighters say, "A guy calling himself Sweet Pea on a message board will really dig this win 4 decades later." Not to mention you revealed you are illogically critical of wins where you claimed you correctly picked the winner, which has to be the most baffling rating system I've seen on a board full of em.

 

Been over this how many times. SRL fought more like he did in Montreal than he ever fought like N.O. That is just the fact. If you watch the first few rounds before he got hurt, it was STRIKINGLY similar to how he always fought. Once he got hurt, then all things go out the window. He wasn't trying to fight him and beat him at his own game. You want to talk about reading too much into what fighters say... that is a SRL excuse. He wasn't trying to beat him at his own game, he was using the strategy formulated by somebody with much more experience than either of us. To say that it was wrong, or make up some phony excuse that he was simply doing to fight Duran's own fight is being blatantly disingenuous imo

 

So it's disingenuous then? Are you doing your best Rez/Primo impersonation today? Putting together sequences in isolation, that don't show the overall picture. It's clear you haven't watched these fights in their entirety, because if you did, you'd notice that he isn't always moving like this. Second, again being disingenuous, look at the link below and round no. 1

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He's backing away, he's circling away when Duran tries to rush, he doing his flashy side to side head movement will trying to surprise Duran with a quick jab and then stepping to the side. Look at round one, in isolation, and he's moving very similar to how he moved in the damn fights you posted. It's crazy that you keep trying to peddle this point, like SRL never moved, never circled away, was never trying to control range with the jab, was never trying to lure duran in for a counter left... He did all those things, just like he always did. Then what happens, he got hurt badly in round 2, and again in round 3, to which he said, my head was cloudy for 4 rounds after. Hard to come up with a new strategy when your hurt and trying to survive.

The next thing you're missing, which is why your premise is invalid to begin with " SRL fought aggressive/Physically opposing fighters like this... Not only did I prove he did fight them similar to Duran, there are other reason for subtle differences that seem to allude you. First, maybe SRL didn't view Duran as physically opposing, and thus why would he need to move more than usual? His trainer, again as I mentioned, is vastly better and more experienced at game planning than either of us, stated "my guy is the bigger guy, the stronger guy, the taller guy, with more reach, more power and we're going to knock him out" . They viewed Duran as a smaller fighter moving up to face the bigger fighter. Why would they move more? It's ridiculous to even assert that was needed beforehand. It turns out it was, but not because they should've known that going in. Further to the point, Dundee said Duran is a heal to toe fighter, I don't want my guy backing up because that is why Duran excels. My guy is going to come out and control the center of the ring. Yet somehow you perpetuate this false notion that SRL simply choose to fight Duran's fight... NO.. that was the strategy to win, and it had nothing to do with beating Duran at his own game.

Next, did YOU notice the difference in the FOE he was facing? I mean, it should jump out at you from all angles. Most of those guys were scrubs compared to Duran, and couldn't do 1/25th of what Duran could do in the ring. So something working on them, means nothing about how it would or wouldn't work on Duran. Second, notice how aggressive Duran was, these aggressive fighters you keep mistakenly calling them, aren't even in the same stratosphere as Duran's aggression that night. None of them were charging into SRL with that type of ferocity. So even if SRL wanted to move more like he did other times, Duran was the difference correct? Then when you add in how Duran was feinting SRL to death, which again through off SRL timing to get off first or counter punch. He was able to do so, why, because he hurt him badly in the second and third round. He had to respect Duran's feints, which in turn altered SRL plan. That isn't SRL slipping on a banana peel, that's Duran causing that correct? There isn't a single video in isolation that you posted, where a foe was fighting like Duran, nor where SRL fought considerably different to how he fought Duran in the first round.

These are the points that you simply can't get around. A great trainer, with tons of experience, felt like SRL should fight just like how he usually fought. Use some movement, use the jab to control range, and try and lure him in for a counter left hook. That is how he fought Wilfred, which to that point, was his greatness win. Yes somehow, Kevin, knows better than Dundee and SRL himself, and wanted Ray to come up with a totally different strategy than he ever used before in facing a former LW, moving up to face him. Yeah, sounds pretty plausible to me :/

 

if you put the twofights side by side, see the difference in Ray..

 

I knew Duran would beat Barkley. Barkley did not have the handspeed or boxing style to beat Duran. He fought right there in Duran's reach and that is where Duran loves it.

 

I've analyzed and broke down the fights here numerous times. The arguments don't hold up to what is actually unfolding on film. Leonard wasn't a robot that just did one thing and stuck with it no matter what, he does numerous things against Duran, including horizontal movement, and most of them failed. I will add there is nothing indicating his strategy was ever to be deliberately bulled into the ropes and mauled, which is how most of the fight went down.

The difference was Duran, he was slow as **** in the rematch and just couldn't be bothered, he needed his absolute best effort to compete with someone as physically superior as Leonard and he just didn't have it in him a second time. As the smaller pressure fighter, it's on him to make the fight, and he couldn't do it.