Duran Had A Party In His Dressing Room After The 2nd Leonard Fight

Winning every round is a shutout.

 

Then I'm convinced that you're close-minded and lacking in self-awareness, Robert. You need to look in the mirror. You're the one who completely ignores all facts and sources that don't fit with your preconceived notions of the fights--not me. You're the one who imagines all kinds of reasons why we shouldn't believe any source that doesn't agree with whatever self-serving rationalizations Duran came up with in his memoir. Anyone truly interested in understanding the Leonard-Duran fights should be thankful that I took the time to find as many contemporaneous sources as possible, so that we're not just a bunch of 35-65 year old men mindlessly regurgitating the same old wives tales, myths, and conventional wisdom without evidence. Maybe that passes for intelligent conversation in some quarters, but it's a complete waste of time imo. It's not my fault that so much of the best available evidence is in conflict with the various after-the-fact excuses and explanations.

I haven't posted any "hate" on Duran or built up any fantasy. I haven't twisted a single fact or tried to substantiate any rumors. I haven't been "fanboying" for Leonard (Im not a fanboy for anyone—unlike a lot of you guys I just don’t have it in my personality to be a fanboy or to have “boxing heroes” etc.). So I have no idea what you are claiming to find pathetic, ridiculous, or embarrassing.

All I care about is getting as close to the truth as possible. I've repeatedly asked people who disagree with my hypothesis to try to find evidence from the same time period and all I've gotten so far is crickets.

 

Other than the testimony reproduced in this thread, from people close to Duran, concerning his poor preparation for New Orleans...


...Do you believe that Brown couldn’t see why a fuss was being made about Duran making weight for Montreal?

...Do you believe that both Leonard and Dundee were aware of Duran’s weight issues, in the lead up to New Orleans?

 

You twist any and all things to fit your criteria that Duran supposedly was in great shape heading into the second fight. You were exposed by the time I finished page 6 which again is all I could make it up too as you and your partner twisting and turning the evidence until it suited your criteria became nauseating. Its comical as it is nauseating. Hatred for Duran followed by over zealous fan boy worship for Leonard has distorted your attempts for any fair play here which again have all been refuted by page 6. Sorry as already said here you tried it in other threads and failed and you've failed here. Give both men fair treatment or none at all.

 

What testimony? The only ones I’ve seen were from statements made well after the fact, when Duran was trying to do damage control to resuscitate his career, the ones where the amount of weight he had to lose and the time in which he had to lose it changes upon each retelling.

As far as I can tell, not a single person in the world—not anyone in Duran’s camp, not anyone in Leonard’s camp, not anyone in the media, and not any neutral observers who watched Duran’s public workouts—claimed that he looked out of shape or unusually overweight or like he was having a terrible camp until well afterwards. If you disagree please post some contemporaneous accounts to back it up.

Brown downplayed Duran’s weight issues heading into the first fight but he didn’t deny them or try to lie about them. Meanwhile, there was absolutely no fuss at all being made about Duran needing to lose weight in the weeks before New Orleans, as far as I can tell. And even immediately after the fight, Brown and Arcel insisted that the camp had gone fine.

Again, the after the fact stories and rationalizations are cool but ultimately self-serving and inconsistent with the many, many comments from numerous observers before the fight.

 

Are you feeling ok? Show me where I’ve ever expressed “hate” for Duran. Show me this “over zealous fan boy worship” I supposedly have for Leonard, who I’ve constantly criticized as an unlikeable phony. What have I ever “twisted”? These are unfair and unreasonable accusations. You’re better than that.
Maybe the real issue is that I don’t share your fanboy worship of Duran?

 

I have no problem admitting I like Duran. Hes a great fighter with many faults mostly brought on by himself. Differences between you and I is I'm not distorting the facts to favor Leonard and bury Duran like you have constantly done whenever these two are mentioned. You've done it for yrs now and I'm not the only one that's on to it. Come on man show that your better than this yourself. Alot of my comments referring to Duran and Holmes who are 2 of my favorites are pretty obvious tongue an cheek as there so over the top and I think other posters see that. But this obsession of yours is ridiculous at this point.

 

I see absolutely no "self-serving" reason why either Leonard or Dundee would lie about their awareness of Duran's pre-fight weight issues, in the immediate aftermath of his quitting.

The fact that you're quite happy to focus and rely on, as gospel it seems, all the [quite usual] 'happy talk' that training camps dish out pre-fight, but de-value any information coming out post-fight is blatantly selective.

Regarding Duran at Montreal, Brown didn't just downplay the weight rumors; he said Duran was a couple of pounds over - and this was at least a week before the fight was scheduled to take place. Brown gave the distinct impression that he was genuinely bemused by the stir.

So - I don't hear crickets. But, if crickets are all one is listening out for, that's all they will hear.

 

Thanks for the reply. If I remember correctly, in his biography Hands of Stone, Duran was quoted as saying that he didn't feel well or whatever, but then said he knew that he'd get a 3rd fight so he'd come back better prepared next time, or words to that effect, which is absolutely mind blowing considering this man was boxings absolute warrior. So I agree, it stinks. This was the equivalent of Roger Federer throwing his racquet at a ball boy because he lost a point. Unthinkable.

 

Not a problem

The problem was he had too many parties after the first fight and got way out of shape and heavy.

 

No mas was about Duran momentarily losing his mind while he was being embarrassed and could do nothing about it other than to quit, which, ironically caused a much greater degree of embarrassment for him, in the long run. It was clearly an impulse decision that wasn't thought out in advance, or he wouldn't have done it.

 

I'd add "frustrated" to embarrassed as well. Frustrated and embarrassed.

If you sift thru a lot of things and look at everything with a clear mind it really need not be some sort of unsolvable mystery where we have to take crazy stabs in the dark.

 

I agree .Duran was put in a postion he had never been in and panicked. Ray was making him look foolish.
No mystery.

 

He's talking about the embarrassment Duran himself felt, not what anyone perceives it to be. This is the key.

 

Sometimes we can't see the forest for the tree's. Many simple things came together and at the end of it was No Mas. What seems "so easy" to you may have been a mountain to Duran.

He won a million fights both before and after. He went out on his shield in a big way against Hearns, showed immense heart against Barkley etc. Tho it justifiably impacts him heavily one night of madness/weakness need not define his career completely.

If his career ended that night we'd be left with a very dim view of him but he came back soldiered on hard after the disgrace.

You should be looking at Duran and forming your own judgement on how great or not great Duran is. If you don't think he was much chop, you don't think he was much chop. I'm not going to let one performance overly dictate my judgement of him as poor as it was. Others might. It's all up to the individual i guess.

It's certainly helped pass some hours for us all on ESB over the years