Duran of Montreal vs Leonard of the rematch

Fair point.

 

I'd poke the **** outta the teen babe in the avatar.....:good:hey:think

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Leonard would take the early rounds, it's down to when Duran drags Leonard into something closer to the first fight, where he seemed far more tenacious. 2nd fight was competitive, as GazOc says this match up is 'Duran with the right preperation vs Leonard with the right gameplan'

A toss up IMO

8-7 either way over 15 :yep

 

Duran tried to drag Leonard into a brawl in the rematch and had some success in the mid rounds. Dundee woke him up in the corner and so he went right back to what was working for him beforehand, boxing and moving.

Rewatching the fight, I don't think it was actually the "non-event" people say it was. Ray doesn't just run around and not throw punches, he manages to land a fair few good looking shots on Duran, who also has a bit of success himself. I think it's similar to the rematch between Barrera and Morales in that regard. Not a great deal of action but enough to make it interesting.

...Dare I say it....I...I...I kinda think Leonard performed well. :!:

 

Leonards performance was quality. He still had an ATG in front of him.

Hardly Mayweather Vs Hatton ;-)

 

Fraud Mayrunner makes me puke....... Pass the Pepto Bismol....:dead

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Buchanan, Dejesus and Marcel are not ATG fighters. He fought at 154 as early as 1978. Fighting Benitez flatfooted was not necessarily Benitez best style, but Ray had the handspeed to beat Benitez regardless of Wilfred's great defense. Duran could not do anything when he fought Benitez because Wilfred was faster. In a way your argument about Benitez shows how Ray had faster hands and utilized them against Duran and Benitez. Against Hearns it did not work as well since Tommy was fast also. Hearns against Benitez surprisingly Tommy did not look much quicker, but still Tommy won.

 

Leonard himself has said that Duran felt weaker in New Orleans than in Montreal, and that kind of settles it for me. No excuse whatsoever for Duran quitting, though.

As for Montreal, it's very hard to say how affected Leonard was by Duran insulting his wife. Magnasaki is correct that he didn't look as loose as he usually did (jabbing, using head movement etc), but this was also another calibre of opponent.

But it should be pointed out that the win was not in any way as overwhelming as to point to Duran as the better man at this weight. What really separated them is that Duran stunned Ray with a right in rd 2 and then had his way for the next 3 rounds before Leonard recovered. The last two thirds of the fight were very even, with a slight edge to Leonard (who rallied in the last rounds). Had Leonard not to got caught while still a bit cold it could have been a different fight.

Had they fought several times when still in their prime, and in good condition, I think they would have swapped wins with each other.

 

I'm in 100% agreement, Bokaj. Leonard came out looking to beat Duran down, and got clipped, rung, and drawn into a desperate firefight that he got the worst of early. Its those rounds, won by Duran, that won him the fight, as Leonard got the better of it the fights second half, and came within a round or two of stealing the win on the cards.

These two matched up very, very well, and a prime Duran is a handful for any man, and beats damn near all of them in the end. I just believe the action between the two in their prime, their two fights, points to a close points win for Leonard, closer and more difficult than the decision he was on his way to winning in the rematch before Roberto bailed.

 

The rematch and rubbermatch, mixed in with the Benitez and Hearns fights show how Duran could not deal with speed. I think it is obvious that once Ray fought Duran's fight in 1980 and saw he could last even when fighting Duran's fight, he only had to fight his fight and use his skills and he would win easily, as he did and as Benitez did. We do have the fights to show that Duran could not deal with elite speed. There is no doubt in my mind that Ray would not have swapped losses with Duran again. Duran could not deal with Ray's speed and skills once Ray fought his fight. The proof is there.

 

Leonard would be the first to disagree with you, I think. He said himself that he was very impressed by how extremely quickly Duran closed down the distance in Montreal. Against Benitez and Hearns, age and additional weight had taken away much of that speed. Using these fights as examples is a bit like using Ali-Young as an example of how Ali couldn't cope with defensive slicksters.

 

If you've even been in that sort of fight you'd know you don't really change from going toe-toe to sticking and moving mid-fight, its all about the rythm and pyschology, once someone has been pounding on you, you retaliate instead of boxing smart

And as I said Leonard was on ***** street from round 2 to the mid rounds

 

Good point.

 

good points, all of them.

 

The only time I ever heard SRL whine about the weight or feeling weak was after his ass was kicked by Norris at 154 in 1991 when Raymond had been at 160 the last few years... Other than that, making weight and being comfortable was never an issue for him....

Ray said his leg / calf was injured when Camacho waxed him in 1997, but Ray was a ghost by then...

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