Duran of Montreal vs Leonard of the rematch

I don't think it's insane. Duran spent most of his career as a Lightweight, and was going into the ring against Barkley as an old, blown-up 160 pounder. Barkley, not a truly great fighter, had already sparked Hearns and was huge for the Middleweight division. He could punch, and was expected by the majority to seriously hurt Duran. It's not hard to fathom why, the size disparity was considerable and Duran was at the twilight of his career.

I think considering Duran's age, weight, and the size and power of his opponent, this win could be argued as being more impressive than Leonard beating Benitez and Hagler. Ray was primed for Benitez, and there were no physical disadvantages to speak of. Likewise, Hagler was a little past his best and the manner of victory wasn't nearly as impressive as Duran's was against Barkley.

 

I'm not sure Barkley's style did suit Duran at that stage. Barkley was a 6'1 monster with legitimate punching power. He pounded the **** out of Duran's ribs all fight, and landed flush left hooks that would have knocked out quite a few of the active Middleweights around at that time. Duran had no business taking those shots, and he had no business winning the fight. It's not good enough to simply say, "...it's only Barkley". That doesn't tell half of the story.

 

when i watch that fight against barkley... i'm always overwhelmed by duran's skills, strength, and resistance to pain as a fat old man. i've never seen a fighter with such natural talent. i look at him and think 'you couldn't have done any other job'.

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I disagree. Ray was always an intelligent fighter, and would never have been deluded into thinking he could trade with a Marvin Hagler at 160lbs.

I see the circumstances leading up to Montreal a little differently. Duran wasn't really known as a destructive power puncher at 147lbs, he'd spent most of his career down at 135lbs, and was actually seen as the smaller man going in. I can almost understand why Leonard would fight the way he did, Duran had looked great against a past prime Palomino, but Palomino was no Ray Leonard.

 

completely agree. that's what i was saying. barkley only appeared to 'suit' duran because of duran's miraculous ability to throw and receive bombs, at that age, and at that weight. people take barkley for granted, but he was knocking people out a few years later at heavyweight! just because barkley wasn't a runner, doesn't mean duran should have been expected to deal with him easily. i wouldn't have even been as impressed if duran had hunted down a fleet-footed fighter, pinned him against the ropes, and pummelled him mercilessly...

 

I feel the same way, goat. It's one of the most impressive performances I have ever see. You really have to take into account that Duran was 37 years old and operating at 160lbs before you can fully appreciate what he did that night. He countered beautifully with his right hand, and weathered some shocking body punishment as if it was nothing.

 

I understand all that but none of that makes Barkley any better, if we're going by the 'oh wow he beat a bigger man way past his best weight/prime' then Jones win over Ruiz, Pacquaio's win over Margarito is great, and Leonard's win over Lalonde all trumps his Hagler win, just crazy crazy thinking. Considering his age its a very good achievement, its not an act of greatness though because you don't need to be great to beat Barkley. Plus wasn't this massive Barkley himself drained at 160lbs? Or is it only Duran who's allowed to be drained?

This is the same Barkley who Nunn and Kalambay handled comfortably and Benn would take out in 1 round, albeit the 3KD rule

Leonard's win over Hagler, is arguably the best of the 20th centrual, as he was arguably the best MW of all time and it was something like 6years since Ray fought a ranked opponent

 

Dundee predicted Leonard would take Duran out quite early if I remember rightly. I do understand why they thought they'd take Duran out 'smaller man moving up, Duran past his prime, his power isn't as effective at 147'. A big underestimation and a bad bad mistake

 

As you all know, I don't like this 'Llloyd Honeyghan of the Curry fight' mentality, it's not my cup of tea at all. Welterweight Duran is just welterweight Duran to me, and welterweight Leonard is welterweight Leonard.

As far as I'm concerned this fight happened, som the only answer to the thread is that if they fight twice they win one a piece.

 

this is true. i would just say that the way duran beat barkley was more impressive than, for example, the way pacquiao beat margarito. firstly, pacquiao was prime, and in amazing shape. duran wasn't just past prime, but he was old, and fat. also, pacquiao outboxed margarito, whereas duran stood and traded for long portions of the fight.

i'm not saying that duran's win over barkley is as great as a win over an elite fighter. it's just that the circumstances of that fight were more extreme than your average 'great little man beats average big guy' fight.

 

Duran outboxed Barkley too, he did it in the pocket by rolling the punches for the most part, Barkley's wider clubbing punches were tailor made for Duran's great shoulder rolling and the sharp counters and straighter punchers were always coming out on top

But yea I rate Duran's win over Barkley over the Pacquaio Margarito

 

This is actually not true. When interviewed "On the Ropes" he said that his initial plan was to stay in the pocket with Marvin, believing his superior speed would prevail. It was only when he got knocked out in sparring a couple of days before the fight that he changed his plan.

 

....and if they fought 100 times Duran also only wins 1 time :yep

 

Jones and Pacquao were both at the top of the Boxing world when they amounted their victories over the likes of Ruiz and Margarito. How is that even remotely comparable to Duran, a fighter who hadn't been relevant for years, who's last high profile fight was maybe 5 years prior when getting blown away by Thomas Hearns? There's a clear distinction between the circumstances of those fighters, and LaLonde wasn't nearly as good as Barkley, in my opinion.

Duran beating Barkley at 37 years of age, becoming a four weight world champion and Middleweight champion was certainly an act of greatness. Sure, Barkley wasn't a great 160lbs fighter and he would go on to lose to the likes of Nunn and Kalambay, but that's hardly a disgrace is it? Those two were particularly outstanding during those times. I'll say it again, it's not enough to simply say, "Barkley wasn't great". It doesn't tell half of the story.

Ray's win over Hagler is arguably better, yes.

 

SRL is a very smart bizznesman & thats what it's all about at the end of the day & thats what you'll always here Duran say: I FIGHT FOR PAY:deal

Leonard knew he could'nt cut it above 147 what with his style & the Kalule fight back in 81 shows that & hence the disgraceful mocking of Hagler in 82 at that big staged announcment when he summoned all the worlds press to see him anounce the fight the whole world was expecting & demanding in fighting Hagler but he did'nt he used it as a phoney retirement so as to avoid certain defeat & that would be the end of the Leonard brand as such. He hung around at all the fights like a bad smell & teasing the press about a comeback & winking at the camera's & in general upstaging every major boxing event.

He kept himself in the news & when Kevin Howard put him on his arse in 84 & he ****ed off into retirement again it was all about marking time as he knew the MEGA money was still in play as long as Hearns/Hagler & Duran were still active & ranked. Smart smart man when it came to prolonging his $$$$$$$$$$ earning career & he always made sure he held all the aces + kings/queens & jacks & it was leonard that really exploited the catchweight private contract weight stipulations all in his favour. If you wanted to earn big $$$$$ you had to agree to everything leonard wanted, he was the BRAND & he exploited it to the max. There's been none smarter than Leonard & thats what Mayweathers attempting to do albeit rather badly at this moment. Leonard was slick whilst Floyds attempts are crude in comparison:yep

I know it's no easy at your age for you to comprehend the abuse & angst that i & others show towards SRL as you obviously wer'nt born then & only have tapes & mags to go on which is OK from a boxing perspective but as you'll know the majority on my age group agree with me with regards to Leonard & his career as we where more privy to information on the feller that the younger generation did'nt have as we grew up with him & watched & read about him on a daily basis. He's the Man Utd of boxing as far as i'am concerned, he's become an institution that can't be questioned as all relevant info from back then know gets lost in time & all you see is the propaganda spewed out in the form of "Greatest Hits" ect ect.

If Leonard & his weight rigging of fights as in Hearns 2/ LaLonde fiasco & Duran 3 were attempted today what do you think your generation would feel about it & view him as?

I respect Leonard as a superb boxer who fought in one of the most demanding era's in our sports history & overcame the likes of Benitez & somehow snatched victory from the jaws of certain defeat against Hearns in 81. Incredible competitor BUT there's just far to much smoke & mirrors about the guy & who would never ever re-match Benitez/Hearns or Duran when opportunity presented & most definetely avoided Hagler like herpes.

None of Leonards victories really carry any depth after sept 1980 as he really struggled to put Larry Bonds away at 147 even when Dundee said in the corner after 2 rounds "You do know that you've a stiff in front of you don't you" The sort of fighter leonard was who relied on re-flexes was'nt made for a long career back then as you had the Likes of Curry/Starling/McCrory/Colin jones all coming through.

Leonard was now into the MEGA $$$ fights & thats why he plotted & calculated his career path with such savvy & it was all about waiting & waiting till the time was right & he made a FORTUNE!!!! But that dos'nt give him the right to be lorded as the be all & end all of boxing which is what he is too the casual fan & those today who have heard the name & got his "Greatest Hits" tape/disc for xmas. He's tained goods as far as i'am concerned & damaged/corrupted boxing in such a way that it'll proberbly never be the same again as it was back in the 70's early 80's.